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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Believe it or not there are quite a few groups doing tours to DPRK, all of which, I believe, fly out of Beijing (some take a train into DPRK). The trips are expensive and they charge a lot of money once inside, too! It's like $50 to see one of those massive "performances" they do, with all the propaganda (call me sick, but I get a charge out of stuff like that  ), and I don't think you have a choice on whether or not you want to see it. That stadium in Pyongyang is supposedly the largest in the world, seating 150,000. I want to see all the Juche monuments, all the statues of Kim Il Sung and so forth. I don't support the regime, but I am a student of propaganda and I appreciate the "art" of propaganda. I'm so glad Russia didn't go completely berserk and tear down every Lenin statue and every hammer and sickle (like the huge USSR seal on MGU!).
I think it'd just be really interesting to see it for myself, talk to the minders, etc.
Before the Russia trip came together, I would've been going to Thailand with a Thai friend in October and I was going to visit Vietnam and Cambodia while there (it'll be awhile before I get to Asia, but I want to see Hue, the city my father was near in Vietnam, and I want to see Angkor Wat). |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Regarding Mogs: I'm in Caseys boat. He needs to apologize himself from flaming, baiting, pissing people in here that dont even talk to him and cool down a bit and accept other opinions, before he can expect anything from anyone in here.
Besides, this is the 7th time in 4 weeks alone that he's proclaimed that he's leaving only to come back a week later and the 4th user in this forum within months including you Cyndy, that made such proclimations only to return a week later as if nothing happened. Why you guys even do this is beyond me. 
Renwan: how and why did you get find out and get affiliated with the KFA? How does that and has that worked out? What are the visa requirements to get in NK?
Casey: smart choice choosing Russia over Thailand. Was there 4 summers ago and that place is touristed and westernized to death, you would've hated it...........although I would go now to support and put money there for the tsunami recovery.
And if you want Soviet nostalgia, theres always Belarus (would like to visit there) Trans-Dnestier, and places like Armenia, Georgia and the stans where I hear there are still statues of Stalin still around (in Georgia).
And a few friends of mine were going to rent an apt in KL (Kuala Lumpur) for the summer and just road trip and travel across SE Asia for this summer and head back to KL, but the plan fell through. Look into it though, it is cheap. $500 a month for a fully furnished 2-3 bedroom apt. |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:28 am Post subject: |
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El Casey and E,
I am disappointed in you both. I know you guys are smart and I want to believe you are fair and decent. Apparently I am mistaken. But I hope not!
You both only show your stubborness and arrogance. In this situation, you lack decency and humility and that is sad. E, who cares if people say they want to leave this site? Perhaps it is based on an honest feeling re how they feel the forum is etc. There is no need to ridicule anyone re this.
Isn't WTR a forum and informative site about Russia? It seems to me that there should be tolerance for different impressions, experiences and perspectives. That is what will make this a rich and informative site.
I know that men generally not to be entirely stereotytpical have difficulty apologizing for anything. I just think you both can do better and are better. At least I am hopeful. Come on please don't let me down!!! |
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Only
Frequent Guest
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Cyndy...
No one is rediculing anyone. Yes, there are many people who get affected by hostile behaviour of otheres, be such behaviouur real or merely perceived, to the point of quitting communication. It is rather normal. I, for example, feel like quitting my job everytime my VP goes into screaming mode. Now what do you think would happen if I voice my desire to quit? Right, I'm likely to be fired on the spot.
Why am I saying all this? Because feeling in a certain way, acting on these feelings and stating your intent to act without ever following through are completely different things and lead to different consequences.
Story about a boy who cryed "wolf!" comes to mind as an example. Best thing Tolstoy ever wrote, according to me 
There is always an option of not posting for awhile, letting your frustrations subside and coming back unuffected, free of grudges and with clear mind. Or an option of actually quitting. It is not exectly a suicide, you know: it's a message board, and one of many at that.
As to Mogs. Hm. He invites it, if you ask me. Calling people brainwashed, moronic and idiots tends to backfire. You are disappointed in E an Casey? - Your right. But an explanation attached to it begs the question of why aren't you disappointed at Mogs himself?..
Beats me, for one.
Especially than you post how people who've never been to Russia and don't know anything about realities have nothing to bring to the table here. Cyndy, dear, Mogs is one of those people; more so - he thinks himself an expert on the subject while all he has even a vague idea of is some aspects of Russian politics and random notes on social issues, and THAT"S ALL.
Would you like if people and life in your country were judged solely on the basis of White House actions, as they portrayed in non-english language media world over? Would you really think it describes US best and fullest, all good and bad about it?
Would you think that numerous articles about, say priests molesting boys, be the best description of Christian church, it's history, it's values, it's role in our civilization? - I am a complete secularist, yet even I don't think so, because *it is not even near a full picture*. Are those articles true? Well, yes. Is it enough to build your opinion on? Heck, no.
So call Mogs critical all you want and consider him well-intended, be my guest - I might even agree: but if you try to put labels such as 'thinker' or 'intelligent' on him, I'd beg to differ, as both of those imply things measurable by something other than your and his believe that he is such.
He has MUCH to learn, not just facts but how to connect them as well: we all do, of course - otherwise life would be boring - yet not all tend to overestimate their intellectual aptitude to a degree where it renders their learning ability nearly dysfunctional...So why not let him take his time?
On a complete side note: posting for couple years on Usenet with its lack of editing function and archives going back to the late 80's, taught me a lesson (at a price, even if small one): I realised at some point that kids nowadays get 'virtual' earlier and earlier, and all my rumblings could be easily Googled by my daughter as soon as she gets a bit of 'net savvy...
Lets just say I made my conclusions |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Vital Signs and Only for giving your honest, intelligent and even provocative responses to my post. I really do appreciate it. Of course, this is a virtual reality and sad but true not only are mere children participating at early and earlier ages, but equally true is that the anonomyity lack of accountability attracts not only persons who are high on what ever but also other disenfranchised people.
Still, I for one believe it or not, care about people here. And when I think someone is getting dumped on etc. or ganged up on for no good reason, I feel it is right to come to his or her defense.
I am still hopeful that E and El Casey will come around. |
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Anya
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Look guys, I had a hard time on this forum for the last few days. Can't you just give me a break?!
I'm going to purge this tread. You're all doing nothing but flinging mud at each other for the last couple of pages. |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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You dont have to lock or delete this thread, and doing so would be a bit too rash. Discussion was actually moving along quite smoothly, on-topic and cordially (for once) until some users in this thread decided to interupt and throw things off-course. If I were in your shoes, I would just move to the not relevant folder or delete the posts in question that were the most not relevant to the discussion at hand, and just ask that no one here bring up the subject of Mogsfan, or resort to mud-slinging again, or really have the thread deleted.  |
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Anya
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I've deleted and edited some posts. As if anyone cares to look.
Move it to 'Not Relevant'? We'll loose control of the discussion completely. It's the last thing we need now. |
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Rick
Moderator
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 854
Location: Касабланка
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is my last non-topical post on the matter, but just wanted to clarify a couple of things. I don't need an apology from Mogsfan, as I don't think he needs to - but neither do I (or E). I don't even want him to leave the forums. But we would get along a lot better if he realized he's NOT always right. None of us here are!
| Quote: | Especially than you post how people who've never been to Russia and don't know anything about realities have nothing to bring to the table here. Cyndy, dear, Mogs is one of those people; more so - he thinks himself an expert on the subject while all he has even a vague idea of is some aspects of Russian politics and random notes on social issues, and THAT"S ALL.
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Only's statement here sums up my feelings exactly. I know that I can be (ok, I AM) stubborn and opinionated, but my posts here are just that - opinions - and I realize it! Unless I cite facts, I fully expect people to disagree. That's the point of discussion. Arriving at conclusions based on exchange of ideas and opinions, along with facts.
Now, back on topic - I'm slowly becoming less of a Putin fan. I still think he was the best choice, and I am supremely impressed with his crackdown on oligarchs and corrupt politicians, but there are other things I'm not so keen on (I'll enumerate them later). I'm reading Klebnikov's book right now and I have SIX others waiting to be read, all dealing with post-Soviet Russia, and the majority dealing with Putin's Russia. So in a week or so, I'll be much more informed than I am currently. 
Let's get back to Square One, as it were, and start off on a new, friendly foot, shall we? |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: ok... |
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She only deleted my posts. I feel so alone and hurt.
I am gonna go home and pout. And have some doughnuts. |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:35 am Post subject: |
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E,
You can check the DPRK Official Website for information about stuff: www.korea-dpr.com
The KFA portion of the site: http://www.korea-dpr.com/kfa1.htm
Apply for membership: http://www.korea-dpr.com/ssi/kfa-form.htm
if you travel by yourself you need to book using a tour company, you can always go with a KFA Delegation,if accepted onto it once you meet in Beijing 2 or 3 days before your trip with all KFA memebrs,the KFA President who is also the Special Delegate of the Govermnet of the DPRK to the world will take care of making the visas;no paperwork or anything.
You can check this years delegations: http://www.korea-dpr.com/kfa2005/ |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, likes that gotta happen! |
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e
VIP
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for the info Renwan.  If you do leave soon, have a great trip! |
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renwan
Talk Show Host
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I dont understand you cindy.
I leave on Aug 3rd to China(arrivin the 4th),stayin 5 days and leaving Aug 9 to the DPRK for 11 days,leaving the 20th. |
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