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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:45 am Post subject: |
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The Russians make passage into their country very difficult for everyone and three times as hard for Americans. Impossible to get visas, incomprehensible registration rules, those really inane migration cards that they now hand out to travelers printed only in Russian.
Let's face it Spice, in spite of their handwringing, they would basically prefer that foreigners stayed out of their country altogether. They want the tourist money but they don't want the tourists. This country has never been open to foreigners and it isn't now either. *Sometimes* I feel very lucky to have had the opportunity to live here. Not many foreigners are allowed that privilege. |
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Mr-Purves
Frequent Guest
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:28 am Post subject: |
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It's all rather depressing really, I think. It seems incredible that the country doesn't make an effort to cash in, literally, on tourism. I know many people here in Scotland that would love to go to visit but who just can't be bothered with the incredible hassle of it all.
It beggers belief. Real wealth can be generated from tourism..if you are prepared to make the effort to entice them. |
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Rick
Moderator
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 854
Location: Касабланка
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| I moved the topic to Contexts, Myths & Truths. Seemed to fit better there, as it discusses a general topic. |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1599
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| on the other hand, is it any easier for Russians to visit other destination, say namely the US or the UK? Would diplomatic tit-for-tat be a factor? |
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Kesha
Talk Show Host
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 258
Location: Terrapin Station
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:06 am Post subject: Re: --- |
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| Gul_Dukat wrote: | For all I care, Russia could raise the wall again. I will not visit Russia even if going there was the easiest thing to do.  |
I believe you're thinking about Germany! They had the wall. Russia only had a "curtain!"  |
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mr-barley
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 159
Location: somewhere in minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:56 am Post subject: Re: --- |
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| Gul_Dukat wrote: | | For all I care, Russia could raise the wall again. I will not visit Russia even if going there was the easiest thing to do. |
If that is your true sentiment what are you doing here? This is mainly a travel site after all. I think you just come on to this site to aggitate like your "spoonhead" name would imply. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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overseas_expat: Not sure what you mean by this comment that it's 3 times as difficult for Americans. I would think it's just as easy/dificult for anyone.
mediashark: Russian citizens do need to get visas to visit most european countries as well as the USA. Some of those visas are harder to get (like the US visa), some of them just require that the person has asome kind of income/bank account and paid travel arangements (hotel, tours, tickets, etc.). In any case, none of the visas require the traveller to register his/her visa. None of them require an invitation. As as far as the diplomatic tit-for-tat, I am sure that is one of the reasons for the complicated russian visa rules. That is one of the problem with russian foreign and visa policy. There's a lot of grand-standing. Reality is that Russia - especially outside of large cities - is still a very poor country where the average income across the country is around $200 a month. No wonder the more develooped countries require visas. Even though the US has strict requirements for Russian visa applicants, many of those that get in still stay in the US illegally (most waiters in Russian restaurants here in New York are those that came here on travel or student visa and stayed). So, while I think that many of the visa regulations in the west are way too expensiev and over-protective, they make some sense. Those whole russian visa process does not make any logical sense. They don't ask you for a proof of income and the invitation is nothing but a beauracratic formality where people are invited by some travel agency and can they make their own arrangements. |
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mediashark
Moderator
Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1599
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Gul, any more nonsense from you and I shall ban you. |
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Spice, I'll tell you what I mean.
Russia has 2 visa forms. One, fairly simple, for the residents of two hundred something countries of the world; and one special complicated 4 page form, required for visas for Americans only. I guess you haven't seen this little gem.  |
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tripchik
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 136
Location: Exile
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Really, it isn't so much hassle to visit Russia.
Of course, to Europeans spoiled by the borderless Schengen area, any barrier is tedious. Personally, I always found the English Channel and HM customs a deterrent to visiting the UK.
Tourism is way down everywhere - not just in Russia - while competition has intensified. Now Poland and the Baltic states are looking for trade and many new airline routes are in service. Cheap flights have really opened up those countries.
Petty extortion by Russian police and officials - yes, one could well do without that. But service, restaurants, security, all these aspects are much better than five years ago.
I think this article is rather slanted. Certainly, it isn't only Russia that's hurting. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Something are valid. Prices of Hotels are increasing greatly in Moscow and SPB. The level of tourism help is low and Russian government is not great promoter of tourism. Idiots like the Liberal Fed Party with Nationalistic comments about increasing the difficulty of staying Russia are harmful. Lack of promotion of areas other than SPB and Moscow are low.
But if you actually get out of MOscow and SPB, you will see an inexpensive holiday and that is not nearly as bad as they report. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| overseas_expat: I did not have to see any pages. I did my visa through one of many online travel agencies. That's what good about russian visa - you don't have to follow all the rules. To get a visa if you an american citizen all you need is money, passport and one photograph. If you filled out all those forms, you got your visa the wrong way... Don't tell me you actually went to the embassy as well as spent hours in line, cause you don't need to do that either. |
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Mr-Purves
Frequent Guest
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Spice: But that's the whole point: Anything to do with Russia can be got round if you are prepared to pay enough... Personally I find that a bit sad. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Mr Purves: There's no quesion that the situation is bad. However, as long as you can solve a problem with $150, it's a manageable problem. I agree that the visa system is outdated and ridiculous. |
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