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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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 Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| vorteks: Full economic integration and common currency require similar political and tax systems, as well as similar rules than govern the economy. The Mexican economy has gone a long way, but many of its regions are very corrupt, the business confidence is low, the education system is very poor where many people outside major cities can't read and write. There's no question in my mind that the US should have a legal framework that allows Mexicans come here and work if there are jobs waiting for them while at the same time imposing fines on those employes hiring illegal immigrants making the leagal channels the way to import workers here. Regarding the future, the US gets a lot of legal immigrants each year (almost 1 million) and the birth rate here is decent - we don't have the same kind of ageing population as Europeans. One can argue that we need more of that. But amazingly, Bush is the one is favor of opening the labor market to legal migrants while many in his party are against. Their point is: let's strenghen the border first and then talk about work permits. We'll see what happens. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| vitalsigns wrote: | | What good do you personally do for this great country to benifit it, El Casey, to say all the unfounded criticism you also like to pour out on it so much? If it was up to some of you, you would have sat in Paris' cafes drinking coffee and writing novels.... man, that's the "real" life. I am pretty sure, El Casey, if you built bridges in this great land or constructed high-risers, you would have had a whole lot more appreciation for it. I can't imagine waking up every morning being an unhappy liberal. What good do you bring to anyone? All you know is complaining, complaining and more complaining. Put some of you in the Oval Office you won't move a finger to change anything! |
I decided to skip the last four pages of "Mexicans stole my job" and "France sucks" and go ahead and address VS directly again. I was spending the last week+ with my family, enjoying the holidays and, oh wait, I was being an unhappy liberal, that's right. Being home for the holidays SUCKED! And I blame Bush! 
One, how do you know what I have and have not done to improve things? What have YOU done? You act like working on large construction projects is somehow a privelege, whether or not you earn a living wage or have benefits. It's not, and I have. I've also worked at Kennedy Space Center so, once again, before you start running off at the mouth about things you know nothing about, you may want to do some research. 
I spent a long time learning about various issues facing the country and then either using the resources of the advocacy group mentioning the issue or the House and Senate websites themselves sending emails to my representatives. Did it do any good? Rarely. Our Republican reps always voted against gun control bills (good) but never voted to curb any abuses of big business, including the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (do you know what that is?) citing the need to "recognize and balance the rights of both citizens and corporations." Excuse me? The point I'm trying to make here is that being "proactive" within the system, doing things like writing your Congressmen, etc. doesn't accomplish anything. So I don't waste my time on it anymore. It just gets my blood pressure up and in the end doesn't reach the goal.
Furthermore, I don't really understand your disdain for those of us who possess the intellectual capacity to do more than simply swing a hammer (figuratively speaking, obviously). Am I inherently some sort of bad guy because I can write well and I'm intelligent?  And I happen to prefer tea, by the way. And if you're trying to make a jibe at Ernest Hemingway you oughta rethink that - he's a hero to many regardless of their politics.
And, you prove my point about my biggest criticism of "middle America" (a rapidly shrinking demographic): sheer and utter refusal to admit any problems whatsoever with America. And, once again, and I'm getting tired of beating this horse, you cannot begin to solve problems until you admit they exist.
Why are you on this forum, VS? I don't ask that in a snide fashion, I'm genuinely curious. Have you lived in Russia, are you an ethnic Russian? I'm just trying to understand your side a bit better but, speaking as former right-winger, I just don't fathom the, er, "logic" that the right-wing uses to form its arguments. |
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happyday
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| if you shoot all the aliens, and build walls around countries, problem sovlved. |
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Fire_Goddess
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| happyday wrote: | | if you shoot all the aliens, and build walls around countries, problem sovlved. |
ohhhhhhhh happydayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy LOL  |
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vitalsigns
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| init6 wrote: |
Furthermore, I don't really understand your disdain for those of us who possess the intellectual capacity to do more than simply swing a hammer (figuratively speaking, obviously). Am I inherently some sort of bad guy because I can write well and I'm intelligent? And I happen to prefer tea, by the way. And if you're trying to make a jibe at Ernest Hemingway you oughta rethink that - he's a hero to many regardless of their politics.
And, you prove my point about my biggest criticism of "middle America" (a rapidly shrinking demographic): sheer and utter refusal to admit any problems whatsoever with America. And, once again, and I'm getting tired of beating this horse, you cannot begin to solve problems until you admit they exist.
Why are you on this forum, VS? I don't ask that in a snide fashion, I'm genuinely curious. Have you lived in Russia, are you an ethnic Russian? I'm just trying to understand your side a bit better but, speaking as former right-winger, I just don't fathom the, er, "logic" that the right-wing uses to form its arguments. |
I missed this one before.
| Quote: | | Furthermore, I don't really understand your disdain for those of us who possess the intellectual capacity |
I never said that writing a novel, or an article in a news paper requires special intellectual capacity. Since when?
| Quote: | | than simply swing a hammer (figuratively speaking, obviously). |
If somebody didn't "swing a hammer" you wouldn't have a house to live in, a road to drive on, etc. Those types of jobs are more practical and demand more respect than what people usually give to them - than writing an article in a magazine.
| Quote: | | And, you prove my point about my biggest criticism of "middle America" (a rapidly shrinking demographic): sheer and utter refusal to admit any problems whatsoever with America. And, once again, and I'm getting tired of beating this horse, you cannot begin to solve problems until you admit they exist. |
El Casey you are a smart person, and yet you fail to see that America IS the only country that is doing something right when the whole world is passively searching for some bogus solutions to serious problems. We live in a crisis and America is doing SOMETHING about it. The lastest islamic protests show what crap we live in and how different they are from anything you and I know.
| Quote: | | Why are you on this forum, VS? I don't ask that in a snide fashion, I'm genuinely curious. Have you lived in Russia, are you an ethnic Russian? I'm just trying to understand your side a bit better but, speaking as former right-winger, I just don't fathom the, er, "logic" that the right-wing uses to form its arguments. |
I am here to socialize. I love to be on here. Obviously you come on here to brilliantly show off and disappear again. Are we not worthy to be talked to more often? |
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gonethesun
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Exeter, NH
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Wow .. this thread sure took on a life of its own! I hadn't checked this out in a while.
I can't say I agree with any of init6's points, however. He is spinning some real myths.
Vitalsigns actually seems more relevant, however I don't see all "liberal" causes as being bad. Often it is the poor application of government approaches that causes problems. There is no inherent reason why government has to be poorly run and have less than the best and brightest ideas.
In any case, this appears to be one of the hottest topics on these boards over the last few weeks ... I'm always one for poking a stick into the ant's nest! |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, GTS, I haven't really made any "points," per se, only responded to others'. And "please to point out" the "myths" I'm spinning...it's a myth that over 40 million Americans have no health care coverage? Go look it up.
Anyhow, VS, before you try to criticize about "showing off and disappearing" you might try to educate yourself on my situation. I'm not sitting in nice sunny Floridian suburbia sipping iced tea and enjoying Wi-Fi. I'm in Moscow where internet connectivity is a bitch.
I popped in today because I finally have internet in my общежите! So I should be around a lot more often now. But when I'm paying R60/hr. for internet on some crappy terminal in an internet cafe I'm concentrating on blasting out my emails, maybe posting a blog entry and getting gone.
Finally, you missed my point again. I didn't say intellectuals (and I don't consider myself one in the classic sense), journalists and others who work with ideas rather than concrete items are any more important than construction workers or workers of all stripes, for that matter. Quite the opposite, actually. My point was that I really don't understand the hysterical right's outright fear of people who don't toe the party line and can think for themselves. Furthermore my point was also that I have worked in those jobs! I have swung a hammer, I have worked in manufacturing, I have guarded defense contractor campuses and areas of the Kennedy Space Center - because I've performed these blue-collar jobs I can see from the perspective of both "sides," if you will, a hell of a lot better than most people, left or right, who simply left high school, went through university and decided they knew all the problems of the country and wanted to "tell us all about it."
And for the record, Rush Limbaugh is utterly without credibility these days and the fact that few deluded "Dittoheads" cling to his foolishness doesn't excuse anything he says, much less his appalling hypocrisy. Michael Savage, while very interesting, is basically the antithesis of my views although my attachment to the left is loosening more and more as they continue to be outraged without doing anything about it. The modern American right wing is a frightening group of neofascists (neocons), however, so I'm rather concerned for the future of the US.
Suffice to say that my time in Russia has helped me get the perspective that I yearned for - America is a great place that is, alas, currently led by a group of criminals. But I'll probably be branded anti-American and unpatriotic because I don't have framed pictures of Bush in my bathroom.  |
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Fire_Goddess
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The bathroom is the perfect place for such a picture, right on the back of the toilet so you can look at it before you take a dump LOL. |
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gonethesun
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Exeter, NH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I find your comment about "framed photos" more true of Putin's Russia ... than America under Bush. The pendulum of American politics swings alternatively to the left and the right. Russian politics has yet to prove any such pattern. The hushed tones of kitchen-table political discussion is still more prevalent in Russia ... making the loudest public voices being either extremist or nationalists (Vladimir Volfovich Zhirinovsky, for example). Putin comes off in this environment as the most reasonable alternative.
But even so, he is heavy-handed and rather self-serving. Could you imagine if Bush tried to spend BILLIONS in Crawford, Texas in hopes of bringing the 2018 Summer Olympics? Yet in Putin's Russia, he can sign a bill for infrastructure in Sochi and Krasnaya Polyana ... to serve himself and his wealthy 'friends' ... worth a potential $11.5 billion (300+ billion rubles). Bush's elitist hunting buddies can't compare to the Putin's Russian oligarchs.
To put that spending in perspective, the Big Dig in Boston, the largest public infrastructure project ever undertaken in the US (an arguably, the world) cost about $14 billion ... and was considered a huge pork barrel project in the 6th largest metropolitan area in the US.
I find much to admire about Russia ... but it is absolutely disingenuous to suggest that Russia ... is a more politically liberal society, where public expression of political dissent is more tolerated ... than the US (even in the post 9/11 daze/days of G. W. Bush).
Some words that are as true today in Russia ... as ever:
“Ever since the Romanovs ascended to the Russian throne, from Mikhail Fyodorovich to Nicholas I, the government has been at the forefront of education and enlightenment. The people follow along, but often lazily and half-heartedly. And it is precisely this which constitutes the strength of our autocracy.” — Alexander Pushkin |
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Fire_Goddess
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah you are right! |
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cyndy22
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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very interesting but stupid... for those of you with any familiarity to an old, hilarious American tv show in the late 60"s- Laugh In.
I haven't even peeped in WTR lately but was prompted today from a PM. I do think that Init6 protests too much. While I do give anyone credit for seeking a unique experience in living and studying in a foreign country, I find it amusing that Init6 STILL After all these months, maintains fervently how better off he is in Moscow. It's a bitch isn't it Init6 at those Moscow internet cafes. LOL |
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Fire_Goddess
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| What I still dont get though is why everyone expects Americans to remain content with the status quo. I mean come on we are supposed to be the country everyone looks to for inspiration, the country that continues to evolve. Yet it seems like weve stopped evolving and stopped being the best we can be. It isnt right for a country like the USA to sit even for a moment and say, "ohhh look we are better than this country, and that country, cause we have this and that". No we should not be comparing ourselves to anyone else, because we have an obligation to continue evolving, and making the USA the best place to live for as long as possible. The stuff that is going on today and being allowed to go on today in the USA is despicable. That is not what the USA stands for and we should not sit by silently and allow that kind of shit, and then say "ohhh but we are still better than those people". No infact we are worse than those people because we have tasted democracy and chosen to throw it in the trash! |
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tuller
Talk Show Host
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Americans |
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My wife and I have had quiet a few talks about America, differences between her homeland and her new home in America.
My wife is an intelligent lady, very quiet, reserved and shy..maybe I need to add stuborn and hard headed also, so I respect her thoughts and her honesty in our talks.
She has told me that her beautiful culture and homeland are Russian and Russia, her heart is not in Russia anymore, her heart is in her new home in America with her new family and new American friends.
The twins chose to be American Citizens, my wife has also chosen to be an American Citizen and will have her citizenship in less than three years.
She says America is the greatest country in the world, but her homeland of Russia is also a great country and her soul will always remain there. I think this is good and I appreciate that in her heart.
She really gets frustrated listening to Americans wine, she says she appreciates everything that America has to offer her and our look alikes.
Now that she's been here a little over two years and has experienced the American lifestyle she's has a better understanding of why Americans and our political system is the way it is.
She told me recently that she used to be on the outside looking into America and Americans, now she's on the inside looking out at the rest of the world and the world seems to have a bad misunderstanding of America and Americans. Her thoughts, maybe they're jealous or it's just plain selfishness or they've been mislead.
She loves America, she loves the many American friends she has and they love her. She loves Russia, her family and friends there also, I love Russia, her family and friends there also.
My wife will never bash her new country nor Americans, I will never bash Russia nor the Russian people.
I'll never bash any country's people. You'll hear me bash some foreign airlines and airports.
I think no matter what country you want to like or dislike because of your own personal reasons, you shouldn't bash all the country nor all the people.
America is a wondeful country, sure we have bad people and a few bad politicians here, but we're equal with every other country in the world and it's people....you and they have bad politicians and bad people also, but there are many more millions of good people in every country that out weigh the bad people.
America and Americans will offer you our hand in friendship and peace if you want or need it....my expriences with the Russian people leads me to believe they would do it without hesitation also. Don't know about the politicians, but I feel certain about the Russian people as a whole.
And now, it's time mom and myself have to give our twins a goodnightt hug and kiss...and lock the zippers on their motor mouths . then mom and myself will come back downstairs and and say to oursleves..WHEW! we've actually made it through another day!
Tuller |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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tuller
Talk Show Host
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: Aw Shucks Paul |
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Aw shucks Paul, I've been to all of those countries and I still think America is the best place to live. I think Georgia is the best state to live in, so does my wife and our daughters... because it's our home.
Amazing thing, we have new neighbors that have relocated here from Canada recently...they love America also  and we love them for their friendship that they're sharing with us as neighbors.
I have a friend thats brother married a girl from Norway when he was in the Air Force several years ago..she lives in America, an English teacher and loves America also.
Well guys...it's time for me to load my females in the suv and head on down to Daytona for the races!!!!
It's rock and roll Nascar racing time...only in America! and my Russian girls think it's awsome!!..and I think they're awsome also
We wish all a great and safe weekend!
Tuller |
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