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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have Americans here that love Canada. There are Americans in Russia that love Russia. So what is your point ?
I think it is ignorant to go around and say that I have the best country in the world and yours stinks. I think it arrogant(at least rude) to think that YOUR heap of dirt, culture and rules are superior that anyone elses in the world.
Like a said before. I love Japanese Samurai movies, American Rock N Roll, Russian language, Irish Guininess, Italian Pasta, Indian Butter Chicken, and so on. I do not think that Canada is a superior country, but I enjoy the diversity of nations called Earth. I do not sit on Mount Canada singing praises that Canada is the best in world, but it is the place where I am happiest at the moment. It is the place that I am the most comfortable. But have enjoyed my time in the USA, Russia, Germany and Netherlands.
There is a big difference in saying that "I love the USA" versus " USA is the greatest country in the world". USA is a great country and I enjoyed my time there also, but it was not great enough to insult every nation on this earth to state it is the best ever.
Even if you do live in best country in the world, it is arrogant to state that. Was it Jesus that stated the humble will inherit the earth? I guess twits who say "We are the best people" did not read that section. But you are probably think that the USA is better than heaven.
It is people like you who create a dislike for all of the USA. Instead of thinking that we are best, why don't enjoy the diversity of this earth? |
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gonethesun
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Exeter, NH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Diversity is one thing ... but almost all the countries you are citing are relatively affluent western countries. I don't think you seriously want to compare the standard of living of many Russians (especially outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg) with those in the US. It is certainly improving in Russia, but it has a long ways to go yet. And that isn't to say it is miserable, because it is not, but life can definitely be harder in Russia.
And further down the scale, we have Indonesia or Pakistan or Kyrgyzstan or many parts of South and Central America. Even the standard of living in our closest neighbor, Mexico ... isn't very comparable to the US (and Canada of course).
And those differences are not meaningless.
Regarding those polls that always show the US as not the best place to live - it always strikes me that the "best places" to live are judged not so much by peoples standard of living as by their attitudes about it. Americans will never win out on such a poll, because we are generally hungry greedy fanatics who are always looking at the neighbor and comparing ourselves. |
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init6
WayToRussified
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 363
Location: Москва, Россия
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Bing! Paul wins the prize again!
This stuff of my "my country is better than [insert political boundary]" is nothing more than misguided nationalism and that's my point. I'm becoming far more pragmatic, especially having lived in the Russian Federation for the last five and a half months. Cyndy, per usual, you missed the point. And what am I "protesting?" For one, I said that now I recognize that I probably was better off, materially, in the US. Things are cheaper, faster and more readily available (I'm speaking mainly of internet access here). But somehow because America has cheap, fast (not compared to Western Europe, though) internet it rocks Russia's socks off and George Bush is the best on the planet?
GTS, my "framed photo" comment was meant as a joke (I thought that'd be pretty obvious). Yes, they do sell framed photos of Putin at Izmailovsky and yes, they are up in government buildings. And so are framed photos of Bush in the US (in gov't bldgs). I think you've mistaken me for a Putin fanboy, GTS, and I am NOT. I don't think he's such a terrible guy but he IS authoritarian and heavy-handed, yes. The idea that "inside every foreigner is an American screaming to get out" and that everyone should have an American style of government is not only arrogant, it's plain ignorant.
I don't see one time in this entire thread where I have seriously criticized American culture (although, being an American I have every right to criticize my own culture - at least I thought so) or people - ONLY GOVERNMENT.
And that brings us to what Tuller said. People are people, man. Political boundaries are nothing when it comes down to plain old homo sapiens interacting with each other on a personal basis - we have our differences and we usually manage to overcome them. I have met so many great people here in Russia who like me for I am, whether or not they agree with American policies, and I like them for who they are, whether or not I, or they, agree with United Russia's/Putin's policies. I've met some real flaming assholes here, too, but in the grand scheme it's been such a small percentage that my faith in the Russian people has grown exponentially.
So here's what it boils down to, I guess - since when did Americans lose their right to criticize the government? America is run by a corporate oligarchy today, like it or not (apparently a lot of people do like it). In Russia it's similar, although MUCH more concentrated. I would venture to say that less than 100 people control over 80% of Russia's wealth (I could be way off base, however). In the US 5% of the population controls 90%+ of the country's wealth. In Russia it's a far smaller number controlling essentially the same percentage.
So once again, I'm hardly a self-loathing American. I just recognize the problems we have with our current system. You can't begin to solve a problem until you recognize that the problem exists, and not as many people are willing to do that as necessary. But let's be blunt here - America is my rodina. I was born there. Everything there is familiar to me. And yes, I love my country (BIG difference between country and government).
But I'm also enjoying my time in Russia and can recognize that we're all people, we all have different cultural aspects that may be better or worse for each individual. And we can all enjoy each others' company regardless of what system we toil under. |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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El Casey: I am glad to hear from you again. It seems like it was yesterday when you were in Gemany getting ready for your Russian adventures and now you're almost a Russian living in Moscow and seeing the live there for yourself.
I don't think you need to defend your right and ability to critisize the US government since all newspapers and all newsprograms do it here in the US every single day. That's whaty democracy is all about. And GW Bush is not exactly popular here in America either. I don't know where GW is less popular - in Moscow or in New York City. Here in New York, about 85% voted for John Kerry last time. I would think GW is even less popular here now...
Regarding Putin - there's a huge difference between the US and Russia in that the concentration of wealth that you're referring to in America is earned honestly. Whatever you think about corporate america, the rich and powerful, etc., these people pay taxes and abide by laws and bring prosperity to their citizens through taxes they pay and through the charitable activities (here in New York, most hospitals, universities and museums prosper because of large donations from the rich). You can also find so many people who did very well in school, went on to study at presigious university like Harvard or MIT, got their MBA and eventually became high paid executives at one of many coprorations. Many peoplpe that you would call wealthy here in New York (making 200K and over), are attorneys, doctors, financial analysts, marketing specialists, account executives that work long hours and make a lot because of their skills and knowledge. A lot of wealth that exists in Russia is earned through the speculation in natural resources and other less-than-honest activities. Putin subdued many democratic institutions in Russia in the last few years - all TV stations are now in gevernment's hands. Legal system is weak. Police abuse is abundant. Many transactions between businesses are done using cash to avoid any scrutiny or taxes. Tax system is corrupt and inefficient. Human rights are still not respected - you can easily be arrested on the streets of Moscow for looking "suspiciously". Secondly, the pictures of Bush in the US government organizations are going to change in 3 years. Not so sure about Putin's pictures in Russia. US system of checks and balances works pretty well. Better than most US critics would want us to believe.
I would love to hear more about your experiences of living in Moscow and your views on Russian life and economy. |
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