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carlchilders
Just Starting
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:09 pm Post subject: black russians |
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| are black russians treated like second class citizens? |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| they make the best black russians down at zanzi bar. Russian standard + khalua, yeah! |
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waytorussia
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: Re: black russians |
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| carlchilders wrote: | | are black russians treated like second class citizens? |
No. I wouldn't say there are many black Russians, though. Mostly it is children that were born after the 1980 olympic games in Moscow, and because they were born in Russia and speak fluent Russian, they are treated like Russians by everybody. Of course, if you are black you may run into some stupid racist jerk, but what he feels is not what most Russians feel. |
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: Little notice of race......except... |
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My observations based on bringing Black visitors to St Petersburg and talking to many students here, is that there is no general reaction, positive or negative towards blacks. In fact, since most blacks are students at the universities, there is an assumption of higher than average intelligence and accomplishment.
But, and a big but, there are a lot of skinhead punks who love to harrass anyone other then themselves. The police in SPb have made visible crackdowns of groups of skinheads gathering at rock concerts or clubs but it is still a problem for Blacks, Indians, Asians and Jews. All totalled, there are probably only a few thousand skinheads in SPb but they cast a chill on late night activities for some people.
Stan |
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chi6me8ra
Frequent Guest
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:15 am Post subject: ah yeah...racism and such |
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[color=black][/color]
I'm a little confused...some people keep telling me that being black in Russia won't be much of an issue but at the same time others think I have a high chance of someone attacking me because of my skin color. Honestly which is it? I would really like (and by like I mean love ) to go to Russia for a couple months, but not at the expense of my well being. Stan said,
"All totalled, there are probably only a few thousand skinheads in SPb but they cast a chill on late night activities for some people."
That seems somewhat scary, America has its share of skinheads and KKK members, but I'm not afraid of being abused on the street or at a club at a major city. St. Petersburg is a large city so I would hope the same would hold true. I would just like to know what the climate is like...I'm assuming racist ppl are a little more outspoken... |
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: ah yeah...racism and such |
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| Quote: |
"All totalled, there are probably only a few thousand skinheads in SPb but they cast a chill on late night activities for some people."
That seems somewhat scary, America has its share of skinheads and KKK members, but I'm not afraid of being abused on the street or at a club at a major city. St. Petersburg is a large city so I would hope the same would hold true. I would just like to know what the climate is like...I'm assuming racist ppl are a little more outspoken... |
The only people who could or would pay any attention to someone with a different appearance are the small but visable skinheads who hate anything or anyone different, be it skin color, nationality or religion. I was not tryng to scare you with the word "chill" bu that would be the proper term. Black or any foreign students are aware of the possiblity of problems and talk about it. That has a chilling effect and causes them to be more wary, for example wanting to go with friends to a heavy metal rock concernt rather than go alone. The chances of being hurt or attacked in a US city is no doubt much greater because racism is more endemic, where as in SPb, skin heads and their actions really stand out as an aberation. The attacks are not common but since they are talked about and known to have occured, it "chills" Black student's actions. Staying out of heavy metal rock concerts, visiting areas most visited by tourists, such as the historic center and in all likelyhood you will never see a skin head. They are harmless when alone, only when in packs do they get aggressive. Actually, they seem to be more interested in Middle Eastern or Indian victims but anyone different in culture, skin color , religon or different class are potential victims of harrassment. Walking down Nevsky pr at 3 a.m. alone is most likely much safer than your own neighborhood, but a few thousand punks roaming their haunts in groups of 5-20 out of a population of 5,000,000 do get head lines. I never see them in the city center where you will be.
I am white of Scotish ancestry but look like a foreigner so a minor target of theirs but have never felt threatened by roaming all over the city alone at all hours. My favorite time for walking is after midnight due to it being so quiet and pretty.
Have a great visit
Stan |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| skinheads are lost chidren. Lost in themselves. Usually they have inferiority complex, and when they join skinheads, they feel that they a part of something, and that they are "cool". Which they cant feel being on their own, so most of skinheads don't really hate different from them people, they just act accordingly to the group that accepted them, being scared to be all alone again they do that... |
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chi6me8ra
Frequent Guest
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info Stan...going to school in St Petersburg will definitely be an experience. I can't really see myself wandering the streets at 3am and even though I've never been to SPb I would have to disagree about Nevsky pr being safer than my neighborhood in Portland, OR. Having visited major US cities and after living in the Boston area for some time I would say I am prepared to handle myself in a large city. I have questions because from reading newspapers it just seems like the actions of the hooligans/skinheads in Russia are very different from what would happen in the US. Racism flairs up in middle America, within small towns where everyone basically looks and thinks the same. I'm not saying there isn't racism in Portland or anything its just expressed in a different way. Obviously, I'll be careful about where I go, I just need to know specifically where I shouldn't go. Before anyone goes to NYC, LA or Boston I would tell them not to explore places like Yonkers, the Bronx, South Central L.A. and Roxbury alone and/or at night. I'm not particularly scared to go to SPb, I've already made my decison to go, I just want to be aware.
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I see how you classify risk based on your personal knowledge where not to go in your city of Portland. There are some great neighborhoods there and as long as you stay out of areas you know to be riskier, you classify it as a safe place. A visitor does not have tht knowledge so is at greater risk than you assume. A simple disagreement, bumping into someone accidentally or "dissing" will usually result in violence in the US, where as SPb is more easy going and less aggressive so a visitor is not so at risk by not knowing the areas. I assure you, you will walk around, roaming the city plenty at 3 a.m., it is a city for it. During the late spring and mid summer, you will be amazed how common all-nighters are. It s perfectly fine, and not a social error, to receive a call at 2:30 a.m. from an acquintance asking "what are you up to? Want to go out tonight?" as if it was not your sleeping time and as if it was 5.p.m. You would not have been asleep and probably were thinking about going out to visit friends or a club. There is so much built up energy after a long winter of very short days that people get the feeling they are missing out on something if they go to bed when it is still light outside at 3a.m. Remember, we are only 500 miles from the Arctic Circle so the sun does not set until very late and street lights or auto lights are not needed at that time of morning. Wander around a bit and you will quickly realize there really are no longer bad neighborhoods in the city. After a few weeks or months, you will probably understand you are more at risk from drivers and other equal opportunity risks of city life than from aggressive behavior by people you meet on the street.
Have a great time, other students seem to love it. There are about 3,500 foreign students in SP University, most live on Vasilevsky Island so that area is party central although there frequently one metro stop to the south, hanging out in cafes or visiting friends in the old center. You will have a very different sort of problem in a few years....having to go home. A lot of foreign students delay that any way possible and many end up staying to live. Within a few weeks of arriving you will know what I mean and besides you will have a girlfriend who will make you forget any apprehension you have now;>) Did I mention SPb is one of the most romantic cities in the world? It is.
Stan |
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chi6me8ra
Frequent Guest
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:37 am Post subject: reply to stanj |
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You make SPb sound pretty nice...I will try to get to know the city as best as I can while I'll be there (which will only be for 5months maximum). It will be a change of pace and it will be nice interacting with Russian people again. I'm definitely ready to leave the workforce and go back to being a student. Once again thank you for the info; I prefer hearing about the city from somone who is there (or has been thee recently) rather than from a book
P.S. I'm a girl so unless I suddenly become a lesbian I highly doubt I'll have a girlfriend who will make me forget any apprehension I have now about SPb. In fact, I think my parents worry a little more about me because I am a girl and will be going somewhere completely different from where we come from. Anway, no worries about the confusion  |
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chi6me8ra
Frequent Guest
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:53 am Post subject: also |
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| Also, in one of my responses I meant that Portland, OR as a whole is one of the safest places someone could ever be in. SPb is a much bigger city and would be more along the lines of a Boston, San Francisco or Chicago. Portland is what I call a little-big city, we are the largest city in Oregon, have semi-tall buildings, and have large companies workig out of downtown. We are small because we haven't really been affected by the problems other big cities have, yeah there is a poor part of Portland but being poor in Portland isn't like being poor in New York or Chicago. We don't have gangs and seldomly hear about random attacks on people. One never knows who might be crazy or not so I won't advise anyone to walk around alone after everything shuts down but the chances of something happening to you in my area of Portland is pretty low. |
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:49 am Post subject: Confusion |
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"Safe" is a relative term based on perception more than actual threat, in the US where a vast number of people carry guns and live very stressful lives, an innocent misunderstanding can have deadly results. Violence is often the prefered way to settle conflicts in the US. It is not in Russia, people have less stress and react less dramatically to conflicts. Guns are most often used on people the shooter knows or is a family member in the same household so judging personal safety based on good versus bad neighborhoods is misplaced confidence in predicting safety. For a woman in Russia the greatest chance of violence is being married to a drunk. But guns are seldom used since they are highly restricted. Strangers or co-workers pose little risk.
Sorry about the confusion but it is understandable I suppose....not to make an excuse;>) All I said goes doubly for women who are still treated with respect by Russians and foreigners alike. Two years ago there was a report that got a lot of publicity about a foreign woman who was attacked and raped by a guy after leaving a disco late at night but that is the only case I've heard of. She felt doubly violated according her press interview because the police believed her attacker who said they were dating and she said they weren't. That distinction was important to the police who did not see it as a serious crime if they went out . That interview caused quite an uproar and women's rights groups called for protests and for the police to be investigated. A march of about 500 people protested police inaction in reported rape cases where the people knew each other. Even skinheads leave women alone except possibly to ask for phone numbers.
One sight for an American that will be surprising, a standard practice, particularly late at night after the metro (subway) and buses/trams/trolleys shuts down is to see young girls dressed in their best party outfits flagging down the very first car that comes by to take her home. It is considered normal and safe here. The first car that comes by in which the driver wants to earn a little gas money will stop. The rider opens the front door and tells the driver where they want to go and asks how much. Usually it is $1 for 2km or so(much cheaper than licensed taxis) and off they go.
What I said about the city being romantic still goes, just change the sex as desired;>) As an indication of race consciousness, all the young black women I know there, most are either Nigerian or American, all are very popular with local as well as foreign men. Black is considered exotic and sexy among the youth, with Hip-Hop and Urban Beat being the most popular western music and along with black performers and models are featured in many Russian national and local ad campaigns where the image has to be hip and stylish.
That adoption of western black urban images and culture among the kids has been pretty complete except for everyday dress. Students suddenly in the last 2 years have adopted a unisex western European very casual dress being worn by about 1/2 the kids while the remaining half still dress as they did in years past, stylish and trendy, sexy and high heels, even to go to the park or grocery shopping. The acceptance of causal dress is very new and sudden, where flat shoes are not looked upon as being ugly for the first time for example. Soft shoes, athletic shoes were previous only worn while doing some sport and never on the street. Both sexes have started wearing them. Guys have suddenly discovered color in their clothes, where most still wear all black, bright colors are now accepted also.
Five months is 4 months 3 weeks more than needed to fall in love with SPb so I am sure you will love your studies and friends you make here. If you get tired of only seeing Russians, there are plenty of ex-pat hangouts where English is spoken 90% even among Russians.
Have a great adventure and tell your parents to relax, it is going to be safe and exciting.
Stan |
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chi6me8ra
Frequent Guest
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:45 am Post subject: reply to confusion |
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i guess its good that hip hop culture has become an international phenomenon...i don't know about being exotic though. it sounds like russian youth is very much like american youth. there are tons of ppl here who listen to hip hop and right now you can't go to any club without hearing lil jon at least four times, but they don't exactly stick to hip hop fashion (like baby phat or sean john, which happen to be pretty expensive). uber-american clothing companies like abercrombie & fitch are stll pretty popular but people are definitly moving toward a european look. i think the youth of the world is more alike than we all think. i have a filipino friend who has only been here for 8 months and you would think she's american and when my cousin came to the US for the first time if I didn't know any better I would think she has been here for years.
anyhow, i sincerely think i'll have a wonderful time in SPb no matter how long i'll be there. i'm glad there are places for expats but i'm not really looking forward to mainly communicate in english with native speakers. i just hope to get a good mix of friends/acquaintances...plus after talking to all my friends who have been to SPb and after just getting an email from a friend who is there now, I know it will be a worthwhile experience  |
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scholar
Frequent Guest
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| I tried ordering a "white russian" once at a bar, and they didn't know what it was. Any ideas? |
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uday
WayToRussified
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 323
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| scholar wrote: | | I tried ordering a "white russian" once at a bar, and they didn't know what it was. Any ideas? |
A white russian is simply a black russian with milk... but never, never put ice in it, a true white russian is served w/o ice and I don't care what the big lebowski says |
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