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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: Poor people in Russia. |
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| How do the very poor people in Russia survive? I have been reading stories about poor people being evicted from run down buildings, and being forced out in the streets. Is there a welfare system to help them? |
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you think there are so many octagenarians selling beans and pickles on the street? So many very old and very impoverished women begging in the Metro in winter dressed in rags?
The old Soviet social welfare system has been largely dismantled and nothing has been put in it's place. Have you ever seen and old woman buying half a loaf of black bread for 3 1/2 rubles and counting out her kopecks? I have. The standard stipend for pensioners is 3,200 rubles a month, be you a dentist, bus driver, or rocket scientist. That's about $125.
This country is in desperate straits, especially for people over 40.
What annoys me is the people who come visit here for a few days of summer, go to the Kremlin and the Bolshoi and the Hermitage, and leave saying what a glorious and radiant country this is and how much they enjoyed the cultural experience. Those people never saw Russia. |
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krasatulya
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| What's wrong with people enjoying the experience that they paid a lot of money to see? I don't believe that when people go on vacation they should be forced to see the impoverished and destitute parts of a country as part of their trip. People going on vacation are paying to have a nice time; they're not volunteering for missionary work. While it is nice to realize the situations and plights of all people, I don't find anything wrong with people enjoying their vacation without having to see suffering. |
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overseas_expat
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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That wasn't my point, I wasn't suggesting that vacationers should be depressed or missionaries.
But there is a thin veneer of *culture* and romantic history that visitors see that masks a country in near destitution. Then they come away after their 3 or 4 days in July in St. Petersburg palaces and museums and proclaim what a lovely experience. It is such a pleasant experience because it isn't real Russia.
The poster posed a question about poverty, and not tourism. It's a good question that deserves discussion. |
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krasatulya
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree that the topic deserves discussion, but you did relate it to tourism by the last statement you made in your post. I feel I am allowed my point as well that people going to Russia are entitled to tell people how wonderful and cultural their trip is without having to add "but I realize the country is very poor and circumstances are dire for many people". |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I could show you the same situation here in the states...which no matter where you live in life self reliance is key. In the states no one should rely on Social Security or medicaid. Or any other government assistance. When I was in St Pete, I saw the ills of society-of course I mentioned this in a previous posts. My GF and her sister are already making plans to take care of thier Mom as her pention is non existant. My fear is that with all the new money, are the younger generations willing to support the older ones? If not I for see a huge problem and no way out of the situation for the retiring. |
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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*sigh*
Is it possible, for just one page to keep a thread on track on this website? I am not comparing Russia to America--or France or Libya or Japan.
Let's stop jamming up any meaningful discussion with useless irrelevant national comparisons.
It's unimportant, but I now exit this conversation because it is obvious that it won't be a measured discussion anywhere near the actual topic in question. As usual.  |
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krasatulya
VIP
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's inevitable that these threads go off topic. His question was "How do poor people survive?" Other than saying that people have a basic instinct and will to live, which forces them to endure all sorts of unimaginable hardships...what else more is there to talk about on the subject. People do what they have to do to live or they die (and the life expectancy in Russia isn't all too high). They have family members that try and help them out what meager things they have to offer , they struggle on a daily basis...no offense, but in my opinion, the question doesn't allow for one to expound on it all too much. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| All I said was that we have the same problems in our country-not a comparison...so as a tourist why would be shocked to see the destitute? They are part of every society. And really we did not deviate from the topic. How could we with only a couple of responses. Ok so the answer to how do the poor survive I guess was by doing what they have to do |
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MrSpice
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3431
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| To answer the original question: the welfare system in Russia is very weak. One can hardly survive in a major city on unemployment insurance and other government handouts. In the Soviet Times, some kind of work was virtually guaranteed. In fact, it was not allowed not to work. Today, the capitalism came, but the new social safety net has not been fully established. If one compares it to Canada's social system, Russian system is simply terrible. I know that many old people can barely afford basic food on their pensions. I don't want to be overly negative, but unless you're young and have some kind of business or involved in new financial ventured, you life in Russia is likely to be at or close to the poverty level. It's a country where there's enormous inequality - way more than in the USA which is known in the world as a country where inequality is visible. In the US one can graduate from college and get 40-50K a year salary (unemployment rate among college graduates is about 3%). That's not possible in Russia. Although, one can find exceptions, especially in Moscow. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| well said Spice...it's so true and they will see great problems if the young don't take care of the old |
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dcunited11
Frequent Guest
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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i've seen (i'm guessing you all have too) the old ladies gathering the rubles that people throw over their shoulder in red square...the center of moscow.
a few months ago, i was getting my picture taken while i was throwing a coin over my shoulder. i was moving my arm back and forth, and the ladies kept flinching like i was going to throw it, like i was tricking them. but i just wanted my picture taken. then i felt bad. i wanted to make a paper airplane with a bill and throw it over my shoulder. maybe next year. |
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nigelinleeds
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| When I visited Baikal a couple of years ago in January I saw a few old ladies sat at the side of the road selling screen wash. None of them seemed to be anywhere close to any houses. Very sad that old people have to suffer so much. I wanted to stop and give them a few roubles but our driver wouldn't stop and didn't seem to give a damn. |
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