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Daria
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 1136
Location: Канада
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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| surfguy wrote: | | yes I think very true and I saw this...some people leave and others stay to make things better...at least try to |
There are also people that leave to make things better.( to make things better back home) |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:14 am Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| Ender wrote: | | The generation of 80s and 90s not drunkards, narcomans or debils. |
Riiight! Look, I lived in USSR. Yes there were the bad things and the good things, but you know what? At least back then we had GOALS. Back then people, most people spent their time reading, people went to theatres, education was a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE! Back then, people actually wanted to go into the military. I remember myself, I could not wait to join the ranks. Today, young people try to EVADE the service in any possible way!
| Ender wrote: |
I was born in 1975 and remember socialism. Remember the word "deficit". Remember absence of the goods in the markets. Remember communistic ideology and everyday brainwashing at the shool. Life is different now, i think our life was changed significantly for last 20 years, far much than life of average American. Some people live better, some people live worse. |
I was born in 1971. I remember the "absence of goods" too. And I also remember my neighbours, good people, an engineer, his wife, a nurse, and their son, who was my best friend at school. When my dad and his were talking in the kitchen once, I asked them, "Do you think that we live in need right now, do you think we are poor?". And the neighbour said, "I have enough to survive". And my father added, "I have my monthly poluchka, so does your mother, we can get something to eat when we need to, we have enough to buy vodka once in a while, I can even get you toys, what else can we ask for, son?". And I got what he told me. I carried it with me, and will do, for the rest of my life. We should thank God for what we have, and not ask for more then that which is nessesairy for survival. In the 90s, when drunkard Yeltsin destroyed the country and got into the Kremlin, people like Endor came out. People driven by simple-minded greed, and materialistic last! They did not give a damn about morale, pride, honour, friendship, love. They wanted only one thing. I'll give you a hint, it was green, made out of crusty paper, and had pictures of different US Presidents on them. My brother, who worked on a factory that, in old times made tanks and weapons for the military, was laid off with 500 other workers when the fat, greedy "New Russian" oligarh came and bought in 1992. That was the year I left. I could not stand to watch these bastards destroy everything those before them worked so hard to built, acquire and preserve! I couldn't bring myself to watch the mighty warships of the Soviet Navy become half-sunken rotting hulks! And the five aircraft carriers, out of them one is left functional, three destroyed, one is deemed disintegraded beyond repair and sold off to China! And the pensions to war veterans?! A spit in the face to those who put their lives on the line for their country in the Great Patriotic War and other wars the USSR has fought! And the HOMELESS officers, forced to work part-time as security gurds to make enough to buy food! The soldiers, that shoot themselves, or try to escape from the Army, because of dedovschina. And GAI, the MOST CORRUPT POLICE FORCE IN THE WORLD! I am not even going to talk about the fact that toady the entire Stabilization Reserve Fund of Russia is kept in an American bank! That is why I am ASHAMED to admit that I am from TODAY'S Russia. And I am NOT! I was born in THE UNION OF THE SOVIET SCOIALIST REPUBLICS! I was born, and am a citisen of the USSR! Я рожден в СССР и умру СОВЕТСКИМ человеком! That is why, when the Russian embassy here in Canada wrote to me asking whether I would like to exchange my "old" (as they said) Soviet passport, for the new Russian one, I DECLINED! Do not force your PATHETIC "Russian Federation" on me! I was born, and will die a Soviet (not "Russian")/Canadian man!
| Ender wrote: |
Some people live better, some people live worse. |
Thieves live better, honest, decent people live worse.
| Ender wrote: |
i think our life was changed significantly for last 20 years. |
Yes, it became much worse. If the dermocrats are in power for another 20 years, that'll be the end for Mother Russia. Only someone like Soso Jugashvili can save her now. But if the majority of Russians today are like Ender, I don't know if she's worth saving. You'll just fuck her up again, in your quest for dermocracy.
| Ender wrote: |
I wanted to say they free from communistic propaganda. Yes there are drunkards and there are brilliant people. Last weekdays i'm was on the lake with young doctors who born at beginning of 80. They are intelligent and they are love their work. They do not have any bit of nostalgia. |
Well, good for them. Let them keep on praying to the mighty dollar instead.
| Daria wrote: |
There are also people that leave to make things better.( to make things better back home) |
You know how fine actor (vechnaya emy pamiat) Mikhail Ulianov referred to these "new Russians" and their "government" in "Voroshilovsky Strelok"? "Okkupanty prokliatye". "Damn occupators"! Well, yes, we had to leave, but someday, we will come back, and they (the occupators) will pay. And pay dearly.
Last edited by RusskiCanadian23 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:32 am; edited 8 times in total |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6996
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Well Ruskii...the fall that you complain about was set in motion long before you were born...it was all a myth and doomed from the start. Desperate people do desperate things and sometimes you have to rebuild from the foundation up...look at europe after WWII there was a lot of corruption and greed then too. Russia will and is recovering...unless of course the people do not allow it to. Putin is no different from Stalin, Lenin, Tsar nicholas, Bush, Clinton, Tony Blair, etc etc...people in those positons have whatever they want when ever they want it...in the words of Mel Brookes..."it's good to be the king" |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6996
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| Daria wrote: | | surfguy wrote: | | yes I think very true and I saw this...some people leave and others stay to make things better...at least try to |
There are also people that leave to make things better.( to make things better back home) |
perhaps true patriots then...and I can see this for sure...it's a good thing for any country |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| surfguy wrote: | | Daria wrote: | | surfguy wrote: | | yes I think very true and I saw this...some people leave and others stay to make things better...at least try to |
There are also people that leave to make things better.( to make things better back home) |
perhaps true patriots then...and I can see this for sure...it's a good thing for any country |
If you mean me, then thanks. |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | Well Ruskii...the fall that you complain about was set in motion long before you were born...it was all a myth and doomed from the start. Desperate people do desperate things and sometimes you have to rebuild from the foundation up...look at europe after WWII there was a lot of corruption and greed then too. Russia will and is recovering...unless of course the people do not allow it to. Putin is no different from Stalin, Lenin, Tsar nicholas, Bush, Clinton, Tony Blair, etc etc...people in those positons have whatever they want when ever they want it...in the words of Mel Brookes..."it's good to be the king" |
No, that country, the one that was even before I was born was a different Russia, a powerful, mighty, great Russia. You see, before, we were an Empire, then a Nuclear Superpower. Now, thanks to people like Ender, it has been reduced to almost NOTHING of what we once were. Russia has been at the top of the food chain through most of it's existence. Now, we get closer and closer to the bottom with each day. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6996
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| RusskiCanadian23 wrote: | | surfguy wrote: | | Well Ruskii...the fall that you complain about was set in motion long before you were born...it was all a myth and doomed from the start. Desperate people do desperate things and sometimes you have to rebuild from the foundation up...look at europe after WWII there was a lot of corruption and greed then too. Russia will and is recovering...unless of course the people do not allow it to. Putin is no different from Stalin, Lenin, Tsar nicholas, Bush, Clinton, Tony Blair, etc etc...people in those positons have whatever they want when ever they want it...in the words of Mel Brookes..."it's good to be the king" |
No, that country, the one that was even before I was born was a different Russia, a powerful, mighty, great Russia. You see, before, we were an Empire, then a Nuclear Superpower. Now, thanks to people like Ender, it has been reduced to almost NOTHING of what we once were. Russia has been at the top of the food chain through most of it's existence. Now, we get closer and closer to the bottom with each day. |
No it was superficial which is why it eventually collapsed...but now the resources are being utilized to rebuild the military and to trade with the rest of the world...it will take time but Russia will rise...see Russia right now is much like the United States was in the early 20th century...raw and full of resources and talented people. The USA was very corrupt back then with Carpet baggers, and Oil and Railroad Barrons, and Bootleggers etc. Much like Russia is today...but eventually they become business men...still corrupt but to keep thier fat pockets lined they have to filter the opportunities down to the people...other wise another corrupt person will come and replace them. |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | RusskiCanadian23 wrote: | | surfguy wrote: | | Well Ruskii...the fall that you complain about was set in motion long before you were born...it was all a myth and doomed from the start. Desperate people do desperate things and sometimes you have to rebuild from the foundation up...look at europe after WWII there was a lot of corruption and greed then too. Russia will and is recovering...unless of course the people do not allow it to. Putin is no different from Stalin, Lenin, Tsar nicholas, Bush, Clinton, Tony Blair, etc etc...people in those positons have whatever they want when ever they want it...in the words of Mel Brookes..."it's good to be the king" |
No, that country, the one that was even before I was born was a different Russia, a powerful, mighty, great Russia. You see, before, we were an Empire, then a Nuclear Superpower. Now, thanks to people like Ender, it has been reduced to almost NOTHING of what we once were. Russia has been at the top of the food chain through most of it's existence. Now, we get closer and closer to the bottom with each day. |
No it was superficial which is why it eventually collapsed...but now the resources are being utilized to rebuild the military and to trade with the rest of the world...it will take time but Russia will rise...see Russia right now is much like the United States was in the early 20th century...raw and full of resources and talented people. The USA was very corrupt back then with Carpet baggers, and Oil and Railroad Barrons, and Bootleggers etc. Much like Russia is today...but eventually they become business men...still corrupt but to keep thier fat pockets lined they have to filter the opportunities down to the people...other wise another corrupt person will come and replace them. |
Well, I want Russia to be owned by it's people, not by some shady "businessmen". You know who calls themselves "businessmen" in Russia? Russian Mafia Godfathers. |
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Lao Shu
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| RusskiCanadian23 wrote: |
Look, I lived in USSR. Yes there were the bad things and the good things, but you know what? At least back then we had GOALS.
And I also remember my neighbours, good people, an engineer, his wife, a nurse, and their son, who was my best friend at school.
In the 90s, when drunkard Yeltsin destroyed the country and got into the Kremlin, people like Endor came out. People driven by simple-minded greed, and materialistic last! They did not give a damn about morale, pride, honour, friendship, love.
"Damn occupators"! Well, yes, we had to leave, but someday, we will come back, and they (the occupators) will pay. And pay dearly. |
So, it was a great Empire. Good people leaved there. They had Goals, and they worked hard. Then a couple of bad guys like "drunkard Yeltsin" appeared. Good people forgot their Goals, they transformed into a bunch of crooks, and destroyed their Empire. A few good guys managed to escape, and one day they will be back...
Russki, I see the point. But don't you think that your story sounds a little bit strange? A kind of "Return of the Jedi"... |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6996
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Well who ever is in power will be a shady business guy...power corrupts. This is my point |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| Lao Shu wrote: | | RusskiCanadian23 wrote: |
Look, I lived in USSR. Yes there were the bad things and the good things, but you know what? At least back then we had GOALS.
And I also remember my neighbours, good people, an engineer, his wife, a nurse, and their son, who was my best friend at school.
In the 90s, when drunkard Yeltsin destroyed the country and got into the Kremlin, people like Endor came out. People driven by simple-minded greed, and materialistic last! They did not give a damn about morale, pride, honour, friendship, love.
"Damn occupators"! Well, yes, we had to leave, but someday, we will come back, and they (the occupators) will pay. And pay dearly. |
So, it was a great Empire. Good people leaved there. They had Goals, and they worked hard. Then a couple of bad guys like "drunkard Yeltsin" appeared. Good people forgot their Goals, they transformed into a bunch of crooks, and destroyed their Empire. A few good guys managed to escape, and one day they will be back...
Russki, I see the point. But don't you think that your story sounds a little bit strange? A kind of "Return of the Jedi"... |
Unfortunately, it's not a story, it's the truth... |
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Lao Shu
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| RusskiCanadian23 wrote: | | Lao Shu wrote: |
So, it was a great Empire. Good people leaved there. They had Goals, and they worked hard. Then a couple of bad guys like "drunkard Yeltsin" appeared. Good people forgot their Goals, they transformed into a bunch of crooks, and destroyed their Empire. A few good guys managed to escape, and one day they will be back...
Russki, I see the point. But don't you think that your story sounds a little bit strange? A kind of "Return of the Jedi"... |
Unfortunately, it's not a story, it's the truth... |
Or, by other words, this is how you see the history...
By the way, Russki, as you write we were an Empire....
Does "we" refer to Russians, or also to Georgians, Latvians, Chechens and others who lived in USSR? |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| Lao Shu wrote: | | RusskiCanadian23 wrote: | | Lao Shu wrote: |
So, it was a great Empire. Good people leaved there. They had Goals, and they worked hard. Then a couple of bad guys like "drunkard Yeltsin" appeared. Good people forgot their Goals, they transformed into a bunch of crooks, and destroyed their Empire. A few good guys managed to escape, and one day they will be back...
Russki, I see the point. But don't you think that your story sounds a little bit strange? A kind of "Return of the Jedi"... |
Unfortunately, it's not a story, it's the truth... |
Or, by other words, this is how you see the history...
By the way, Russki, as you write we were an Empire....
Does "we" refer to Russians, or also to Georgians, Latvians, Chechens and others who lived in USSR? |
We = the Soviet people. Regardless of race, nationality, religion, or ethnicity. In USSR everyone had thier place, everyone was part of The System. Now, everything is scrambled.
In fact if you want to talk in terms of science fiction, we were a lot like the Borg in Star Trek. The Communist Party was our Collective Mind... lol |
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Lao Shu
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: How Russians see their history |
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| RusskiCanadian23 wrote: |
We = the Soviet people. Regardless of race, nationality, religion, or ethnicity. In USSR everyone had thier place, everyone was part of The System. Now, everything is scrambled.
In fact if you want to talk in terms of science fiction, we were a lot like the Borg in Star Trek. The Communist Party was our Collective Mind... lol |
You made the point - we were all Soviet people. And there were no "them" - only "us". How did it happen that wicked "them" emerge? OK, suppose it was a genetic mutation, brain damage, whatever. Then it is not clear, why the great Empire could not resist a couple of bad guys and just fell apart. It looks like something wrong was with "us", Soviet people, the Borg. Or you prefer a science fiction explanation with "drunkard Yeltsin" as Darth Vader? |
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darthvader
WayToRussified
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 372
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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No one can resist the power of the Dark Side! Seductive - an easy path it is!
Darth Vader ruled through fear. Fear controlled his empire. I can suggest more apt rulers of Russia/USSR (and elsewhere) who fit this mould. So, maybe Yeltsin was not the Chosen One - to bring balance to the Force? Or was he? Maybe Yeltsin was just a simple Ewok, way out of his depth, in an impossible situation, with overly-rushed Jedi training?
Time will tell.....The future is......clouded........The Dark Side shrouds all! .......Perhaps Yeltsin's legacy will be less frowned upon in 50 years - or not?.......Hmmm.......there are many futures........
May The Force be with you |
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