Way to Russia Talk Lounge

AliceFromMoscow · WayToRussified Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 411

About army - our army is dangerous when a rooster pecks us in the ass.
But not before that

WayToRussia · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:09 pm Post subject:

Politics and economics -- there are as many opinions as there are people. So, I don't know if you can get a definite answer from anybody. I will try to answer this question from the practical point of view.

I agree with RussianBoy that Russia is a great place to live in. For example, a very high percentage of families own their own apartments / houses. It was given to them during the Soviet times and the beginning of 90s, so not as many people as in the west are burdened with high rents etc.

Also, however, strange it might sound, Russia is one of the most democratic and free countries in the world. Yes, it still has something of a police state in a way, but then I think people feel much more free in terms of what they can do and when. There are regulations, yes, but they are very flexible. It concerns everything: from public life to making a business. You start feeling it when you try to live here for a long time.

For example, it's very hard for a foreigner to open a bank account in EU, while in Russia any foreigner can do it in a few minutes (provided you can speak Russian or there's somebody who speaks English).

You don't have to think that if you offend someone in Russia you will get sued. While there is a law about that, people feel free to express what they feel about each other freely, and to me that is much better, because it allows for direct communication. Example: one of my friends from Germany was driving his truck in Germany once, and there was a guy who cut his way, so my friend, being a very impulsive person, showed a finger (told to f* off) to this guy. In about two weeks he received a court order. That is crazy to me. In Russia if you're not happy with something, you can show your finger, tell somebody to f* off and then it's up to this person what he wants to do to you personally. You won't receive any court orders or bills, you will have to deal with everything directly. Some people might not like this directness, I do, even if I'm the one who is being told off.

People in Russia know what business is about. Many shops in every city, town, and even the smallest village are opened 24 hours. And we're not talking about gas stations here, but real shops that sell food, clothes, there are even a few 24-hour mobile phone shops in Moscow or a couple of 24-hour music stores on Nevsky Prospekt in St. Petersburg.
When I'm working at 5 in the morning, I know I can come out of the office, walk about 5 minutes to the restaurant and have a nice nourishing Ukrainian meal in the nearby Korchma restaurant. At 5 am! I know that I can go shopping when I really have free time: on Sunday. In the former USSR or most of the European countries I wouldn't be able to do that.

There are a lot of places where the latest modern technology is utilized: talking about banks again, Guta Bank has one of the most advanced online banking systems I ever seen: no other bank abroad offers such range of services and such flexibility in terms of what can be done online. We also have many business solutions that are already implemented at Russian companies, as well as a very well developed telecom market. While it's a worldwide trend it's especially hard to imagine for Russia.

Talking about bribes, again, that is very controversial. While many people complain about bribery, ask any driver what he prefers: to pay 100R ($3) to the traffic inspector for driving 10km/hour faster, or having his driving license taken away, having to go to court, stand in long queues, and then pay 10 times more? Or ask any mother whether she prefers her 18-year old son to go and fight in the war against Chechnya, or pay $3000 and secure him a place in a university, from where he can't be taken to the army? When it comes to personal matters people change their beliefs quite fast.

In terms of business, a lot has changed. The taxes are still high, there are unfair regulations, yes. But, still, now it's already possible to do business and to pay 100% of the taxes you should without risking to go bankrupt. In fact, in Russia you pay 20% on your profits and less than 30% on employees salary, which is comparable with the rest of the world. If your turnover is not too big, you can just pay 6% of it as taxes and that will be it.
There are also a lot of possibilities in terms of the latest tech solutions: have you ever tried to start acquiring credit cards for your company in Europe or USA? They will do all kinds of checks on you, go through all your accounts, think for a month or two, and then grant their long-awaited decision and burden you with 10% processing fees, 30% reserve fees etc etc. The two Russian companies http://assist.ru and http://www.cyberplat.ru can open a merchant account for any company in 2 weeks, and it'll take only a few e-mail exchanges and one signed contract.

That is not a complete list, but just to give you an idea what kind of things I mean when I say life became better.

Camrade · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject:

2WayToRussia

first i should say that i totally agree with you Smile

And about the bribes I can add that policeman who stopped my friend didn't take his driver's licence and said: "If you do it again you will lose your driver licence by a new year holiday, so try to drive careful" Smile

but in Europe as I know police don't care about people's problems... it's a feature of russian mentality so it can't be changed...

but still i can't say that Russia is an ideal country like RussianBoy does.... Smile

there are some problems on the one hand and some advantages on the other.

I've been to many countries (especially in Europe) and I can compare

ow28 · Frequent Guest Joined: 09 Sep 2004 Posts: 36

markhagelin · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:21 am Post subject:

Dr Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Funny, if you look at accomplishments of Russia versus USSR as milestones, you will see a decrease in gold medals in olympics, less Nobel Prize winners, Less accomplishments in science, dropped to 6th in the space program, less trust of financial transactions and flight of capital at incredible rate.

The biggest issues that Russia has in modern day era is that there is lack of trust or that corruption is so heavy that basic economic transactions are not trusted. There has been too many issues that force has been to seize properties like the Aerostar Hotel and Oil companies. So West with good reason does not trust Russian business dealings which is considered to worse than under communism. Russia has to give teeth to its property laws. This has effected the flight of capital. The amount of capital leaving Russia is amazing and is the real cause that Russia is not turning the corner economically. Because no one trust the banking system or that property law is not being upheld, then move the capital to a safe haven like purchasing companies outside Russia. Due to the risk factor, people are willing to purchase assets in Russia at fraction of the price that would be purchased in other parts of the world. Russian immigrants in Canada have difficulty using the basic banking system including cheques and debit cards.
People in Russia know what business is about. Many shops in every city, town, and even the smallest village are opened 24 hours. And we're not talking about gas stations here, but real shops that sell food, clothes, there are even a few 24-hour mobile phone shops in Moscow or a couple of 24-hour music stores on Nevsky Prospekt in St. Petersburg.
When I'm working at 5 in the morning, I know I can come out of the office, walk about 5 minutes to the restaurant and have a nice nourishing Ukrainian meal in the nearby Korchma restaurant. At 5 am! I know that I can go shopping when I really have free time: on Sunday. In the former USSR or most of the European countries I wouldn't be able to do that.

Dmitri what you stated about the convenience was interesting, but you have to think that you are looking at this in comparison to Western Socialist Europe. I can buy food, eat, drink coffee and so on 24 hours. But I cannot buy booze and drink beer on the street. But I do not have the problems/freedom associated with this rule. My problem with Russian laws is that it punishes the people who cannot afford the bribes. My ex told me the rule of Russia is "It is forbidden, but if you really want to then it allowed".
Russia seems very anarchy sometimes in which anything goes if you have the money. Rules seem to be not universally applied.

I agree with RussianBoy that Russia is a great place to live in. For example, a very high percentage of families own their own apartments / houses. It was given to them during the Soviet times and the beginning of 90s, so not as many people as in the west are burdened with high rents etc.
How many of the youth can afford to purchase new apartments? What is the condition of the apartments?
Average flat in Novgorod -Bachelor is 25,000 USD and the average salary is about 3000 USD. Most of the salary would be used for day to day living like food and transportation. Thus cannot really afford a flat unless they make money through undeclared income(which is very common) which pushes the tax burden on honest people or known as gloopay ludi. Condition of properties have great fell in comparison to high times of communism. Look at pictures during 50-60's on USSR, the property was mowed and trimmed, now may areas are left to neglect. Wooden village outside Novgorod is one such place.
Also, however, strange it might sound, Russia is one of the most democratic and free countries in the world. Yes, it still has something of a police state in a way, but then I think people feel much more free in terms of what they can do and when. There are regulations, yes, but they are very flexible. It concerns everything: from public life to making a business. You start feeling it when you try to live here for a long time.
Has the number of locks on your doors increased or decreased during this new era? How people walking in the streets? Risk of terror and bombing?
I have two locks on my door and they are not locked when I am home.
Russia is rated one the worst places for journalism. Even Ukraine is rated better. Average lifespan of journalist was two years, before being forced to quit. Before Beslan tradegy, you would hear about the bombing and attacks in Chechenya, and now nothing. Putin even put pressure for one editor to get fired.
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/06/daily.shtml
For example, it's very hard for a foreigner to open a bank account in EU, while in Russia any foreigner can do it in a few minutes (provided you can speak Russian or there's somebody who speaks English).
There are a lot of places where the latest modern technology is utilized: talking about banks again, Guta Bank has one of the most advanced online banking systems I ever seen: no other bank abroad offers such range of services and such flexibility in terms of what can be done online. We also have many business solutions that are already implemented at Russian companies, as well as a very well developed telecom market. While it's a worldwide trend it's especially hard to imagine for Russia.
In Canada, you can do the same. You can get loan in about 1/2 hour if you bring the proper documentation. Russian problem in which Putin is trying to solve is the lack of trust in banking institutions. I think a year ago, Russian government tried/did guarantee bank deposit to certain limit. This is important, because money can taken from the mattresses to the bank accounts, thus reduce amount of robberies. If the bank has deposits, they will be able to loan this money to others who will spend it to buy homes who employ people who will earn money and deposit it in the bank who will loan and so on . We call it the multiplier effect.
The banks in Canada. I can pay almost all my bills, buy stock, bonds gold, order insurnace transfer money, and so on.
You don't have to think that if you offend someone in Russia you will get sued. While there is a law about that, people feel free to express what they feel about each other freely, and to me that is much better, because it allows for direct communication. Example: one of my friends from Germany was driving his truck in Germany once, and there was a guy who cut his way, so my friend, being a very impulsive person, showed a finger (told to f* off) to this guy. In about two weeks he received a court order. That is crazy to me. In Russia if you're not happy with something, you can show your finger, tell somebody to f* off and then it's up to this person what he wants to do to you personally. You won't receive any court orders or bills, you will have to deal with everything directly. Some people might not like this directness, I do, even if I'm the one who is being told off.
I thought the comparison was to the USSR days, all well. Canada does not have these law suits. It is quite common to tell some F* Off (as you can tell with my attitude). But the big complaint that Russians have here, is that if there is conflict, Canadians always look for the government to mediate. I agree with the Russians that it is stupid.
Talking about bribes, again, that is very controversial. While many people complain about bribery, ask any driver what he prefers: to pay 100R ($3) to the traffic inspector for driving 10km/hour faster, or having his driving license taken away, having to go to court, stand in long queues, and then pay 10 times more? Or ask any mother whether she prefers her 18-year old son to go and fight in the war against Chechnya, or pay $3000 and secure him a place in a university, from where he can't be taken to the army? When it comes to personal matters people change their beliefs quite fast.
So poor people are forced to fight Chechenya and rich can avoid it. Seems fair. NOT!!
In terms of business, a lot has changed. The taxes are still high, there are unfair regulations, yes. But, still, now it's already possible to do business and to pay 100% of the taxes you should without risking to go bankrupt. In fact, in Russia you pay 20% on your profits and less than 30% on employees salary, which is comparable with the rest of the world. If your turnover is not too big, you can just pay 6% of it as taxes and that will be it.
There are also a lot of possibilities in terms of the latest tech solutions: have you ever tried to start acquiring credit cards for your company in Europe or USA? They will do all kinds of checks on you, go through all your accounts, think for a month or two, and then grant their long-awaited decision and burden you with 10% processing fees, 30% reserve fees etc etc. The two Russian companies http://assist.ru and http://www.cyberplat.ru can open a merchant account for any company in 2 weeks, and it'll take only a few e-mail exchanges and one signed contract.
That is wrong Dmitri. You can start a business in Canada in a day. Go to Corporate registry office and buy a kit for incorpoartion and within a hour, you have your company. Then take you documentation to the bank and within hour, you can have corporate bank account. You can then sign up to take credit cards and that might take a couple weeks. I have personally set up these merchant accounts(in Canada and the USA) and it does not take this long. Canada, Companies are still liable for taxes even if they go bankrupt

Dr Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

Back to the original question.
Do you REALLY think that the hand over from USSR to Russia was done properly?
The argument that Russia was better off in Soviet times is a foolish one. The economic policies and inefficiencies had basically bankrupt the nation. But the comparison to the USA is unfair one, because the USSR lost 20 million people and had much of its industry disputed or destroyed from WW2.

WayToRussia · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:

Dr Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

RussianBoy · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:42 am Post subject:

AliceFromMoscow · WayToRussified Joined: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 411

Dr Fauste · Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654

RussianBoy · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:30 pm Post subject:

2 Dr Fauste
Why you SO interested in Russia ?
I think you left (was born in Russia) our country and want to belittle Russia now

andre · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject:

RussianBoy · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:06 pm Post subject: