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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| charles wrote: |
By the way, it would be great to have the registration procedures on this site in Russian (with a reference to the new law), so we can print & show them to people who are unfamiliar with them. Or did I overlook this?
thanks |
The registration law is there
http://www.center-migracia.ru/news/law_109.htm |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! I'm still wondering what to do, though. I have an apartment now. My landlady should register me, but where should she go? |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| charles wrote: |
Thanks! I'm still wondering what to do, though. I have an apartment now. My landlady should register me, but where should she go?
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The law says that the host (your landlady) should register you either through the local post office, or directly in the local immigration office (Article 22):
| Quote: | Статья 22. : Порядок постановки иностранных граждан на учет по месту пребывания
2) принимающая сторона с соблюдением сроков, установленных пунктами 1 и 2 части 2 и частью 3 статьи 20 настоящего Федерального закона:
а) представляет уведомление о прибытии иностранного гражданина в место пребывания в орган миграционного учета непосредственно либо направляет его в установленном порядке почтовым отправлением, за исключением случаев, предусмотренных частями 3 и 4 настоящей статьи; |
If they do not want to register you, show them Article 21. It says that your actual presence there is the reason for your registration:
| Quote: | Статья 21. Основание для учета по месту пребывания
1. Если иное не установлено настоящим Федеральным законом, основанием для учета по месту пребывания является временное фактическое нахождение иностранного гражданина в месте, не являющемся его местом жительства, либо отсутствие у указанного иностранного гражданина места жительства. |
Another useful thing is Article 2 paragraph 7. It gives definition of hosts. What is important, is that the host is your actual (de facto) host, and visas are not mentioned there:
| Quote: | | 7) сторона, принимающая иностранного гражданина или лицо без гражданства в Российской Федерации (далее — принимающая сторона), - гражданин Российской Федерации, постоянно проживающие в Российской Федерации иностранный гражданин или лицо без гражданства, ... у которых иностранный гражданин или лицо без гражданства фактически проживает (находится) либо в которых иностранный гражданин или лицо без гражданства работает. |
Of course, this is just theory. When you go through this, tell us how it works in practice.
Good luck! |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks, yeah I hope my landlady will have better luck than I did. I'll get that document printed so she'll have the proper ammunition. Thanks for pointing out the relevant paragraphs, too. Is going to the police an option as well, or a bad idea? I thought I read here that the police were also able to register foriegners. |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| charles wrote: |
Is going to the police an option as well, or a bad idea? I thought I read here that the police were also able to register foriegners. |
I think, by police they actually mean immigration offices. Previously, immigration offices were special departments of police, and they were frequently located in the same buildings. |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I still haven't registered. I went with my landlady to another post office yesterday, and she asked if they could register me. The first thing they asked me was, "When did you arrive in Russia?" I replied that I arrived in July, and she said that they can't register me, I have to go the immigration office. That's the exact same thing they said at the other post office. So, I think they have been told that they can only register foreigners who have just arrived in the country. I don't know if that's a correct interpretation of the law, but that's how it's being taken here.
My landlady is going to call the immigration office to see if they can register me, but I already tried at one office, and the answer was no, because I have a business visa. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Charles...if you arrived in July...then you had 3 business days to register...which you have exceeded this (?) perhaps this is the reason as to why no one wants to register you. But sounds like the post office are confused too as to the rules. Please keeps us posted as to what the out come is |
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goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Charles, I can suggest the following:
1. You can try to submit a formal application for the registration. Then the immigration office has to react on it. Even if they do not register you, you will have a proof that you did your best.
2. In the site http://www.realrussia.co.uk/visa/register_visas2.asp they say that Novosibirsk is a difficult city, but | Quote: | | the "Siba Hotel" will register your visa for the full duration of your stay for the cost of one night for their cheapest room |
If you can get a registartion from this hotel for some time, then after this period is finished you can go again to the immigration office and claim that you moved out of the hotel to the private apartement. |
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gomer
WayToRussified
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| One suggestion is to spend your first night at a hotel in Moscow. They'll register you, although probably only for the night you stay there. Still, you'll be registered and in a Russian government database so it is not like you didn't try and you're attempting to sneak in the country. |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I registered in Moscow when I arrived, all according to the rules, and there was no problem. I will be staying for at least six months in Novosibirsk, so paying for hotel is out of the question. One option is to leave the country and come back directly to Novosibirsk & register right away. Then my entry card will have a more recent date. The only problem is, going to the countries closest to Novosibirsk will also require more paperwork, and it would be expensive flying all the way to Europe just for this.
The other option is to make the formal application for registration, but I have already exceeded the 3 days here. My registration in Moscow officially ended July 27th. I also have the PDF copy of my official invitation, which was sent from the inviting company (Европарнас). It lists Novosibirsk as one of the cities I will visit. I should have brought it with me when I tried to register two weeks ago at the immigration office (УФМС). It might have helped, to prove that I have a legitimate invitation to be in Novosibirsk.
Last edited by charles on Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| goDutch wrote: | | If you can get a registartion from this hotel for some time, then after this period is finished you can go again to the immigration office and claim that you moved out of the hotel to the private apartement. |
I told the lady at the immigration office that I was going to be staying in an apartment, but she said that I have to stay in a hotel if I have a business visa.
How does anyone know that I've been here two weeks already? There's no stamp from my registration in Moscow... and there's no receipt or document I am supposed to save, that proves I registered in every place I visited? |
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gomer
WayToRussified
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| charles wrote: | | The only problem is, going to the countries closest to Novosibirsk will also require more paperwork, and it would be expensive flying all the way to Europe just for this. |
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_945.html
According to the above link, you can get a visa on arrival at Bishkek airport, Kyrgyzstan. There might be a airline that flies direct from Novosibirsk to Bishkek. You'd probably have to spend at least 1 night in Bishkek and return the next day. Something you might want to look into.
Last edited by gomer on Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vox16
Just Starting
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| charles wrote: |
I told the lady at the immigration office that I was going to be staying in an apartment, but she said that I have to stay in a hotel if I have a business visa.
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Useless usolicited advice follows: when talking to 'ladies' ( of either sex ) in government offices, believe them only if _you_ know exactly that they tell you the truth.
Otherwise you may hear part of their standart pattern "you can't do this, neither you can't this nor that. You can't do anything. Go away and don't bother me." They refuse to register you in appartment? And _you_ don't know if it is according to the law? They shall provide reason ( in written form ) why it is imposible with references to the law. ( your request should be in written form, obviously, copy stamped with their incoming number at reception(?)) |
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charles
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| vox16 wrote: | | when talking to 'ladies' ( of either sex ) in government offices |
 Point well taken, but my Russian skills aren't good enough make an argument. The best i can do is look pitiful and ask "why, why, why?" That didn't work. Anyway, I didn't get the impression that she was lying just to get rid of me.
Gomer, thanks for looking up the info. I checked into Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, but missed Kyrgyzstan.... I think that's because Sibir airlines doesn't fly there. Maybe somebody else does. I'll check it out. |
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gomer
WayToRussified
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manas_International_Airport
I don't know how up-to-date the information is, but it might help. If you decide to go there, I suggest you call the Kyrgyzstan Embassy in Washington D.C. ( remember the time difference and they should speak English ) and ask about a U.S. citizen getting a visa on arrival at Bishkek airport. Do this before you spend money on buying air tickets. Call whatever airline you choose to fly and ask will they let you on the plane without a Kyrgyzstan visa. They might not be aware that you can get a visa on arrival and would refuse to board you without a visa already in your passport. |
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