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Lady_Stumbletongue
Just Starting
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Virginia, USA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
Many thanks for admitting me to the forum. I was wondering if it is appropriate to discuss and ask questions about Russian fairy tales and folklore when in Russia? Here in the US, sadly fairy tales are looked upon with some disdain, and many people know them only as Disney films. Is this different, or similar in Russia? (I know that this may seem an odd question, but the fairy tales I read as a child were what intially piqued my fascination with Russia) Also, is it rude to discuss 19th century history, including conversation about the 'last Romanovs?' (Again, when I was a child, this was one of the topics in which I was especially interested.) I still have a strong interest in these subjects today, but I am not certain if they are considered appropriate. From what I had read at the time, the rule of the last Czar in the late nineteenth and early 20th centuries was not a good time for quite a lot of people, which led me to question if it might be a sensitive subject today. Also, is there any way to show politeness to people you encounter but are not particularly close to? (Anything to dispel the negative American stereotype?) Are compliments acceptable, such as if one goes into an art gallery and remarks upon how beautiful the art is? The following is the last question, I promise  . Do you know of a good way to meet people in Russia to talk to, and learn what life there is like? From what I have heard, striking up conversations with strangers is frowned upon. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my questions, and for tolerating my cluelessness  |
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vox16
Just Starting
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | Also, is it rude to discuss 19th century history, including conversation about the 'last Romanovs?' (Again, when I was a child, this was one of the topics in which I was especially interested.)
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I think it's not rude. The last Romanovs is 20th. The main point is to find someone capable to discuss this subject at reasonable level of knowledge ( above 'yes, there ws such a tzar... in 19th ? or 20 century )
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I still have a strong interest in these subjects today, but I am not certain if they are considered appropriate. From what I had read at the time, the rule of the last Czar in the late nineteenth and early 20th centuries was not a good time for quite a lot of people,
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Most of them know about it only from history books. So what they can discuss is their opinion on these events. It may be positive or negative but can't pesonally hurt.
| Quote: | | Do you know of a good way to meet people in Russia to talk to, and learn what life there is like? From what I have heard, striking up conversations with strangers is frowned upon. |
But is it not frowned upon there in US, and such a randomly picked stranger is generally a good person to talk on such general topics? |
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Generation-P
WayToRussified
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 316
Location: SHE WENT TO BARCELONA!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | Hello,
Many thanks for admitting me to the forum. I was wondering if it is appropriate to discuss and ask questions about Russian fairy tales and folklore when in Russia? Here in the US, sadly fairy tales are looked upon with some disdain, and many people know them only as Disney films. Is this different, or similar in Russia? (I know that this may seem an odd question, but the fairy tales I read as a child were what intially piqued my fascination with Russia) |
At the moment I can't remember even one Russian fairy tale, instead I'd say that tales based on Russian folklore written in the first half of 19th century are still read in Russia. Pushkin's Ruslan and Lyudmila is relevant also today. Also some of children books written in 20th century are based on Russian folklore, at least Eduard Uspenski wrote one story with Baba Yaga and other figures. Unfortunately I can't remember name of the story. Daria or someone else perhaps? never mind, just found the name of Uspenski's book in Russian it is "Vniz po volshebnoj reke" I don't know is there English translation or not, anyway "Vniz po volshebnoj reke" could be translated to English as Down the magic river.
What comes to compliments, I'd say that most people appreciate compliments no matter where you are  |
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Lady_Stumbletongue
Just Starting
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I am confusing folktales with fairytales. Some of the stories that I seem to remember include Vasilisa the Fair, Maria Morevna, the Firebird, The Snow maiden, etc. Oh, and Generation P, I love Baba Yaga! I am quite jealous of her house on chicken legs. I will look for Down the Magic River, thank you for introducing it to me. |
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Generation-P
WayToRussified
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 316
Location: SHE WENT TO BARCELONA!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| You know so much about Russian folktales! Really good to hear from people who read! Yes, all the figures you mentioned are still kept alive nowadays, go to any bookstore in St. Petersburg, you'll find Pushkin's and Zhukovski's folktales and much more. Do you have special favourites? About Uspenski's story, it is not 100% traditional folktale, all though the story involves folktale figures in their traditional environment. But still it is good to read! I know plenty of people who have read it and liked a lot! I don't know if you are familiar with Eduard Uspenski, he's quite famous Russian author of children books. Some of his books have been made to cartoons, songs... He has very humanistic approach in his books, the stories are warm and kind with unique sense of humour. Warmly recommend for everyone to read! And at least two of his most famous children books are translated to English as well, all though those most famous two have nothing to do with folk tales. |
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Ender
WayToRussified
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 498
Location: Urals
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | Hello,
Many thanks for admitting me to the forum. I was wondering if it is appropriate to discuss and ask questions about Russian fairy tales and folklore when in Russia? Here in the US, sadly fairy tales are looked upon with some disdain, and many people know them only as Disney films. Is this different, or similar in Russia? |
When children begins to read, the first books usually is fairy tales. There are huge amount of tales in Russian literature. Many parents do not like Disney cartoons (at least how they interpret classical tales) and try to avoid them. There are many Russian cartoons which reproduce fairytales with great precision. Mostly made at USSR times. Usually people buy these cartoons on DVD and give them to children. It looks like Disney films are looked upon with some disdain and sign of bad taste amongst parents.
| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: |
Also, is it rude to discuss 19th century history, including conversation about the 'last Romanovs?' |
No this is not rude, however average Russian will be little interested with fate of last Romanovs. Bad rulers, bad end.
| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | | From what I had read at the time, the rule of the last Czar in the late nineteenth and early 20th centuries was not a good time for quite a lot of people, which led me to question if it might be a sensitive subject today. |
No, absolutely not sensitive.
| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | | Also, is there any way to show politeness to people you encounter but are not particularly close to? (Anything to dispel the negative American stereotype?) |
Do not behave as stereotypical American? 
| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | | Are compliments acceptable, such as if one goes into an art gallery and remarks upon how beautiful the art is? |
Of course. However they should be made from pure heart. If you do not like contents of art gallery it will be better to remain silent.
| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | | Do you know of a good way to meet people in Russia to talk to, and learn what life there is like? From what I have heard, striking up conversations with strangers is frowned upon. |
Yes. You may ask here. |
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Ender
WayToRussified
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 498
Location: Urals
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | | Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I am confusing folktales with fairytales. Some of the stories that I seem to remember include Vasilisa the Fair, Maria Morevna, the Firebird, The Snow maiden, etc. Oh, and Generation P, I love Baba Yaga! I am quite jealous of her house on chicken legs. I will look for Down the Magic River, thank you for introducing it to me. |
The next step is understanding relation between Vasilisa the Wise and Baba Yaga. |
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Daria
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 1146
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ender wrote: | | Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: |
Also, is it rude to discuss 19th century history, including conversation about the 'last Romanovs?' |
No this is not rude, however average Russian will be little interested with fate of last Romanovs. Bad rulers, bad end.
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That is so not true. Such an ignorant response, "Bad rulers, bad end". That is exactly, what average uneducated Russian will tell you. So if you hear someone say that, there is no point talking to this person. You can bet he doesn't know anything about Romanovs. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| totally untrue...there is a great interest in the Romanovs...They represent Russia and the tragic fate of the russian people. They also represent the Russian grandeur that was once there...in fact Russia today is much like Russia of the late 19th century and beginning of the 20th century. But that is IMHO |
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Daria
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 1146
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: | | Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I am confusing folktales with fairytales. Some of the stories that I seem to remember include Vasilisa the Fair, Maria Morevna, the Firebird, The Snow maiden, etc. Oh, and Generation P, I love Baba Yaga! I am quite jealous of her house on chicken legs. I will look for Down the Magic River, thank you for introducing it to me. |
Folktales are told by people, from one generation to the other. There is no author. Folktales are myths. Before Russians embraced Christianity, they were pagans. That is where Baba Yaga came from, chicken leg house, Kashei Bessmertnyi...etc.
Fairytales are written by people. The little murmaid, The princess and the pea, Wild swans, The ugly duckling, Thumbelina..etc. We know them as Disney movies..  Well, I bet not every child or even a parent knows that the author of their favorite stories is Hans Christian Andersen. Don't forget brothers Grimms' works: Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood, Sleeping beauty, Snow White....etc. |
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Ender
WayToRussified
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 498
Location: Urals
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | totally untrue...there is a great interest in the Romanovs...They represent Russia and the tragic fate of the russian people. They also represent the Russian grandeur that was once there...in fact Russia today is much like Russia of the late 19th century and beginning of the 20th century. But that is IMHO |
Yeah. If someone interested in the Romanovs this does not means that average people interested also. Ask 10 people on the street what they know. IMHO, most probable answer: "Last tzar of Russia. Was killed by bolsheviks." |
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vox16
Just Starting
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Daria wrote: | | Ender wrote: | | Lady_Stumbletongue wrote: |
Also, is it rude to discuss 19th century history, including conversation about the 'last Romanovs?' |
No this is not rude, however average Russian will be little interested with fate of last Romanovs. Bad rulers, bad end.
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That is so not true. Such an ignorant response, "Bad rulers, bad end". That is exactly, what average uneducated Russian will tell you. So if you hear someone say that, there is no point talking to this person. You can bet he doesn't know anything about Romanovs. |
May be you like official version more? With declaring him a saint, an implicit sign continuity of monarchy even after his death; May be some educated Russians like him for two unsuccessful wars, finally exhausted Russia and lead to communism? For stripping power off local governing units ( zemstva ) and building 'vertical of power' like guess who? |
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Ender
WayToRussified
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 498
Location: Urals
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Daria wrote: | | That is so not true. Such an ignorant response, "Bad rulers, bad end". That is exactly, what average uneducated Russian will tell you. So if you hear someone say that, there is no point talking to this person. You can bet he doesn't know anything about Romanovs. |
Oh pardon me, of course before talk to someone we need to check their knowledge about history, culture, art, science... hell what you can tell me about "design patterns"? If you don't know what is this you deffinitely uneducated person  and not worth of attention.
Average uneducated Russian will tell you what he saw on TV about Romanovs. Almost all TV programs will tell you tragic tale how they was killed - nothing more. There are many people was killed during revolution times, why don't they show film about... let's say defenders of Zimniy palace? At least they died on duty, while tzar was removed from rule because of weakness. Good rulers usually end in some different way, other than murdered by revolutionars. |
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Generation-P
WayToRussified
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 316
Location: SHE WENT TO BARCELONA!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Daria wrote: |
Folktales are told by people, from one generation to the other. There is no author. Folktales are myths. Before Russians embraced Christianity, they were pagans. That is where Baba Yaga came from, chicken leg house, Kashei Bessmertnyi...etc.
Fairytales are written by people. The little murmaid, The princess and the pea, Wild swans, The ugly duckling, Thumbelina..etc. We know them as Disney movies.. Well, I bet not every child or even a parent knows that the author of their favorite stories is Hans Christian Andersen. Don't forget brothers Grimms' works: Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood, Sleeping beauty, Snow White....etc. |
As a matter of fact Grimm's brothers didn't make the stories, instead they collected the stories told by rural, uneducated people. This was popular fashion among the Romantic movement of early 19th century, educated elite believed that uneducated peasants would know the truth and heart of the nation.
Sleeping Beauty is French origin, not German. About Robin Hood I am not sure, but I doubt it would be one of Grimm's, the story is placed in England, anyway.. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| actually Sleeping beauty goes way way back...and has very deep meaning as to who a great people/nation are. People who would one day wake up |
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