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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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yes we need more russians here for thier pers[ective. The USSR was doomed long before Gorby...
All nations and people go through good and down times...Russia needed economic change and better management. It will be interesting to see what it has developed into in say another 10 years from now. Change doesn't happen over night. Nor does stability. Right now Russia is a boom town so to speak. And look at any boom town in history...they never last. Things always calm down and stabilize. And there are always those who suffer and those who prosper. Can't have one with out the other. Putin will become the richest man in the world...when he does...it can only be justified if...and when the average Russian can say that they are living in better times or the best of times. No other Russian leader has been able to do this. Whether good or bad...Gorbachev has enabled Russia to start over...he helped to usher in a needed change.
On the PBS program called THE WAR...there is some really good footage and documentary on the USSR during WWII...I recommend all to see this film |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | yes we need more russians here for thier pers[ective. The USSR was doomed long before Gorby...
All nations and people go through good and down times...Russia needed economic change and better management. It will be interesting to see what it has developed into in say another 10 years from now. Change doesn't happen over night. Nor does stability. Right now Russia is a boom town so to speak. And look at any boom town in history...they never last. Things always calm down and stabilize. And there are always those who suffer and those who prosper. Can't have one with out the other. Putin will become the richest man in the world...when he does...it can only be justified if...and when the average Russian can say that they are living in better times or the best of times. No other Russian leader has been able to do this. Whether good or bad...Gorbachev has enabled Russia to start over...he helped to usher in a needed change.
On the PBS program called THE WAR...there is some really good footage and documentary on the USSR during WWII...I recommend all to see this film |
Well, Putin will certainly remain in power for the next 10 years, he may take a few detours but he will end up as the Leader of Russia every time. It will be untraceable, you can bet on that. |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Opinions on Mikhail Gorbachev |
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Gorbachev to me is a satan, still my people in INDIA finds him a satan. He is responsible for the collapse, he joints hands with west and collapsed it, the congress used gorby as a tool to collapse it as it failed with star wars concept. I would say gorby to be treated like judas and russia as jesus. Gorby is even bad than judas as he destroyed whole country. I hope Mr Putin will put russia back on its track. yes, he will. I wish those cream days are not too far.
Every human being on earth needs food, clothes, education & job. before 1991, russia had it immense now in the name of democracy it has gone upside down.
Putin is doing really good and the newspapers are relecting him good, at the same time he should concentrate local activities like corruption, poverty and education for all. he should attract lot of foreign investment, INDIA would be a best choice as we are good neighbors. i love RUSSIA. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | he should attract lot of foreign investment, |
I think he is doing this...but companies do not want to invest in such a corrupt place. Also when companies invest thier capital and technologies on the agreement of they will retain that which they are to own...only to be forced out once they have served thier purpose...who wants that. Also Russia is not in as good of a position as so much of the Nations funds are in overseas banks...and their is still huge debt. Also the wealthy there use foriegn banks to keep thier monies. So all it would take is for assetts to be frozen and Russia is screwed! If Europe becomes less dependent on Russian fuel...which it will...then Russia's economy will suffer greatly-China can't support Russia alone. Basically it's like this...Boycott Russia and they are finished...stop buying Chinese and they are finished. This is the reality of the world. And the reasons as to why nations need to have a strong middle class...it's a sign of being self sufficient. IMHO |
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saint_chrisburg
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | Quote: | | he should attract lot of foreign investment, |
I think he is doing this...but companies do not want to invest in such a corrupt place. Also when companies invest thier capital and technologies on the agreement of they will retain that which they are to own...only to be forced out once they have served thier purpose...who wants that. Also Russia is not in as good of a position as so much of the Nations funds are in overseas banks...and their is still huge debt. Also the wealthy there use foriegn banks to keep thier monies. So all it would take is for assetts to be frozen and Russia is screwed! If Europe becomes less dependent on Russian fuel...which it will...then Russia's economy will suffer greatly-China can't support Russia alone. Basically it's like this...Boycott Russia and they are finished...stop buying Chinese and they are finished. This is the reality of the world. And the reasons as to why nations need to have a strong middle class...it's a sign of being self sufficient. IMHO |
Good post surfguy. |
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UsualSuspect
WayToRussified
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 324
Location: The Land of Oz
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: Other things.. |
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Jojo,
My wife dislikes Gorby for different reasons than I've seen mentioned in this post. His wife (RIP I think) wore the pants in a major way and certainly showed herself to be a spotlight hog in pics and newsreels I've seen. This attitude/behaviour didn't impress my wife and I distinctly remember she telling me that a lot of Russians disliked Gorby because of her. On a practical level he tried to re-introduce prohibition to a degree. Talk about upsetting people. Standing in a queue for hours to get a bottle of vodka, which is one of the few solaces ordinary Russians had.
She did tell me that he introduced privately owned/operated busses (they are the little ones you see all around) which was a godsend to the citizenry.
I can remember (where's my walking frame?) the hoopla the western media indulged in when Perestroika/Glasnost was announced. Certainly he became a "darling" of the West.
Fair or unfair, deserved or not, he was at the helm when the Soviet Union collapsed. You'll notice it's the older Russians (35 +) that are particularly vitriolic in their condemnation of him since it's their pensions & savings that went down the toilet. Some of my relatives over there got cleaned out totally.
2 cents
Usualsuspect |
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mister_wizzz
VIP
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I remember the time when Gorbachev got the power in USSR, for the first time I saw a soviet leader who didn't look like gloomy.
For people from the West it was a big change, I didn't wonder from which horror movie the new soviet leader was coming from 
More seriously, I think it is very unfair to charge on his back the bankrupcy of the soviet system, like Surfguy said, USSR was doomed long before Gorbachev.
But one thing is sure, he didn't get benefit personaly from his position, he is an honest man, unlike Yeltsin and Putin. He also ended the Afganistan war. |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't what it makes Russian's to think Chinese is finished. Chinese economy is booming. Famous INDIAn companies started its branches in china. Also I feel that russians for the time being they are in dark roof, im sure they will come up. they have to concentrate on 2 things
# the president should get the confidence of the people which is must.
# Literacy level for the childeran have to grow and they should have total access to outside world.
# they have to concentrate lot on Foreign Direct Investment(FDI) for which strong commitment by the governemnt to protect the investors is must. they can also attract foreign currency by
- there should be a free trade agreement between two countries.
- they should attract international students who wants to pursue higher studies like MS, Phd or medicine, currently there is a big problem in russia, asian's are brutally killed in the name of 'Racism'
It all depends on how the government works and putin as a single man, it will be a tough job for him to do this. who said Gorby is a honest guy, he is the one who made 'Soviet' as history, before his rule russia was in heights as it succed in Star wars. many things are good shape. He ended afghan war because that war is started by US and Gorby is a key tool used by US to doom Russia.
who said Putin is wrong, he is the one who i feel god has sent him to resurrect Russia. he has done many things and im sure he will put russia back to proper heels. when russia is in communist rule, everybody got food, shelter and free educaion. now in the name of democracy, poor become more poorer and rich becomes even richer. people are deprived of basic things. do u want democracy to starve or soviet rule where u will get education, food and shelter.
now russia has come up 'Super jet 100' from Sukhoi, sukhoi is now controlled by france companies. now they are doing good businees. |
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Crabman
WayToRussified
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 401
Location: Middlesex
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| bswaminathan, are you by any chance related to surfguy? |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| no Crabman(buddy), how abt you? |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="mister_wizzz"]I remember the time when Gorbachev got the power in USSR, for the first time I saw a soviet leader who didn't look like gloomy.
For people from the West it was a big change, I didn't wonder from which horror movie the new soviet leader was coming from
More seriously, I think it is very unfair to charge on his back the bankrupcy of the soviet system, like Surfguy said, USSR was doomed long before Gorbachev.
But one thing is sure, he didn't get benefit personaly from his position, he is an honest man, unlike Yeltsin and Putin. He also ended the Afganistan war. |
Yep you are totally right...which is why Putin...he belongs to most of the World's super elite organizations...ones that cost big big bucks to join...and not status....He is more like Chirac. But I do think Putin wants to return Russia to greatness |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Crabman wrote: | | bswaminathan, are you by any chance related to surfguy? |
our views are totally different |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | # they have to concentrate lot on Foreign Direct Investment(FDI) for which strong commitment by the governemnt to protect the investors is must. they can also attract foreign currency by
- there should be a free trade agreement between two countries.
- they should attract international students who wants to pursue higher studies like MS, Phd or medicine, currently there is a big problem in russia, asian's are brutally killed in the name of 'Racism' |
So what you are saying is that the west needs to come in and make it all happen...fat chance with out something in return. And protection from laws that are actually enforced. |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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[quote]So what you are saying is that the west needs to come in and make it all happen...fat chance with out something in return. And protection from laws that are actually enforced.[/quote]
See, where ever we are there should be a starting point for everything. I never mean west can restructure it. Now Asian economy is booming and i can say companies like MICROSOFT are surviving basically b'cos a huge percentage of Asian's already there. Even MS bill gates immediate guy is an Asian. Russia now needs lot of foreign currency. If you see, For any developed country they will definitely have lot of foreign investments. Even in INDIA if you see, if a foreign company comes in for any production facility then it has to export to the value more than half of its profit. Its a on going process. you can't restructure it whole night. But FDI is must. then the govt should maintain the law and order properly to satisfy the investors. Russia is having strong population with which govt can play a good role. If they set up IT industries with Indian collaboration then its fine. Same to automobile industry. INDIA is good in engineering, Russia is good at aerospace and medicine.
if there is a free trade agreement between both countries then its fine. both will get benefited. west now a days is not the only super power. it is dependent over other countries.
Above all the education system in Russia should be good, a educated youth will most probably feels secured and by that he will think straight. the govt should concentrate on higher education and it should include computer & English language strictly from nursery schools to university. then see the country will automatically prosper. Also it has to restrict individuals leaving Russia on work permit. every citizen has the duty to fulfill the demands of country. they should work for their homeland. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| bswaminathan...you are kidding right? Gates' Partner at MS is Paul Allen...who is not asian...and actually he is the main guy. India wouldn't be anything had the west not gone there. Read any economic or business forum and Russia is not a place that many large corporations are wanting to do business in. Read the Moscow Times...there is a good article there today. Shell and BP just got burned. MS got burned and Gates went there to tell Putin to crack down on the pirating that goes on. Also...you will see that the shift in production is going to return to the west...Places like Mexico etc. People in the USA are sick of out sourcing and oversees production. India's caste system is horrible...some of the worste poverty and filthy conditions in the world. The IT sector does not account for much. If you want to follow where the real control is...go to where the banks are...not in India and not in Russia. Put a sanction on any country and they could kiss there economies good bye. Russia has still a long ways to go. But I think perhaps yes it might get there. Do you live in Russia now? Or are you in India? |
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