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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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US and China helped Pakistan to go against INDIA as Russia is with us, the west and Pakistan thinks that Russia is a friend of INDIA and is against to its allies. But Russia used INDIA to strengthen its communism as INDIA even today most fo the communist policies are followed. Every govt organisation has a labour law and labour union and most of the rules framed are similar to communist laws. INDIAn congress is very supportive to Russia because, by Kennedy we lost to china, similarly threat of encroachment by pakistan indirectly. to protect ourselves and our territory the INDIAn govt got the assistance of russians as they had a good hand in Asia. Also when INDIA was emerging with the key prospects in space technology US and Europe has stopped us in many ways and sometime directly pressurised Russia not to help us in cryogenics. Till last year we used equipments bought from abroad. now 99% we are indigenous, by mid of next year we will have 100% local components ready. Not only in this, still INDIA is one of the 16countries under US Trade embargo.
Its not that INDIAns are against to west, but to against imperialist policies.
Even in hollywood and 007 movies Russia is portrayed as a terrorist country (Ex: Airforce 1) but this can be true only in screens but not and never in reality.
The involvement of Russia in Afghan is not new, Afghan is basically a Muslim place once attached to INDIA. Afghans basically got arms from Russia to build themself from 1955-1978 not only that Russia is having good relation with Iran, Iraq, Israel and egypt. but US framed a peace agreement with Egypt who is a friend of USSR. then slowly Iraq and so on.. Slowly US formed a friendship with some local islam groups in Afghan and then the group grew as mujahidden and tried and started fighting against Afghan ruler, at one point there is a coup and then at one point Afghan became against to USSR itself. now Afghan which is under the control of Mujahidden tried to oust USSR as US provided arms and funds to them to fight against USSR and destabilise it in the region. One among them was the bin laden in the group. Russias relationship with Afghan is for atleat 5 decades until 1978. US used its toy pakistan to support mujahidden.
Like this the USSR has got the pressure from US, Pakistan, China, Europe, Afghan and its presence is even jeopardised by satan gorbachev. the USSR collapse in 1991 is to be taken as a good lesson that one can't rule a region with 100% purity and when its necessary we have to be iron handed. Anyway USSR will be back on roots. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Actually the Russian Consulate is set to re open in Kabul. Understand that the world is dominated by powers and Russia is in fact one...Pakistan and India are very importantant regions in the world...but they too are not calling the shots. Iran and Russia are not as closely linked as it appears. And Gorbachev is more pro russia then he is anti russia. Russia was doomed before he took office. Now the restructuring of Russia will yield an even more strict regime and well we shall see what happens. |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I met many a afghan males who fought the Rus and I shared tea and stories with them. |
You drank tea with terrorists... wow... congratulations I guess... I hope you are proud of yourself... maybe I should "share some tea" with people in Al-Queda...
| Quote: | | I saw numerous Soviet tanks that had been killed. |
Made you feel awesome, didn't it?
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Reagan and Gorbachev did not work to destroy the USSR. |
lol  Yes, they did. Gorby sacrificed everything: he brought down the Berlin Wall, thus taking Eastern and Central Europe out of Soviet Power Zone, just to become a fucking "German of the Year". He threw those soldiers out of Germany onto a bare field, in tents, when it was -30 degrees outside, do you understand that? The army fucking hated him after that. If he wre friends with the army, the country would still be there today. Yes, those who came out against the government would have been drowned in their own blood, yes, it would have been brutal, but the USSR would still be intact today, and I believe a goal like that is definately worth any means nessesairy to get to it!
| Quote: | | And Gorbachev is more pro russia then he is anti russia. |
He was and is anti-Soviet. That means he was a traitor who worked against his own country.
| Quote: | | Russia was doomed before he took office |
See responce to quote #3.
| Quote: | | and Russia is in fact one |
No, it just pretends to be one. Compared to USSR, todays "Russian Federation" is a fucking cripple in a wheelchair. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Actually when I saw the destroyed tanks...made me feel sorry for them guys...I could see how they were sitting ducks. Also it was strange cause they were located about every 5 km. I saw a really good movie about a russian tank unit in Afghanistan...it came out in the 1990s and well it was quite good. Afghanistan was a struggle for the USSR...but like Vietnam for the USA Both of us militarily won those wars. And the atrocities that the afghans would commit against the Russians was horrific. If you want to drink tea with Al Queda Ruskki...all you would have to do is go to Chechnya.
Todays Russia is becoming more and more like Russia was back in the 1950s/60s. Except it's modernizing...cutting down on waste...centralizing the government giving total control to the Kremlin (Putin)...and watch...just when things seem to be going so great and oil is at $100 a barrel...the US has sold everything for high dollars...ha the US dollar will gain value again, oil prices will drop, and Russia's economy will collapse again...and it will be in ruins...un able to sustain it's self. This happen in the late 1970's and early 80's and it is going to happen again. Alan Greenspan has even acknowledge this. Iraq Afghanistan...it is all about Iran for the USA...it is all about Oil...always has been...ever since wwII and prior. China's economy will begin to decline too...because products being bought here are starting to say Heche en Mexico rather than gun he fat choy or made in china! This is why the whole immigration issue is huge in the USA right now. Well anyways it will all be intersting to see what happens as it is our world...remember too...most of us are just people trying to live the good life...within all this political bull crap and world economic bullarky...we all just try to get by and enjoy our 80 or so years here on earth. |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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ok! we had enough and this should not lead to hot discussion. Gorby sold USSR to US and this is a fact and every poverty ridden USSR citizen knows this. Also as u said..
| Quote: | | Russia was doomed before he took office |
Its right, already with the issues in georgia and other some 25 states, also trouble in afghan, trouble by US and its tail Europe. Russia has faced more evils from US and a final cyanide in a human form the cancer gene "GORBY"
In general, to follow capitalism or communism is a national matter. US from its root tailored to capitalism. where as in USSR its communism, its not bad to follow either one. during USSR rule the people got education, food and shelter they want. The basic duty of any govt is to take care of its people thats done by USSR and now its poverty ridden.
Do u want to live in sewage well with democracy or a satisfied life where govt will take care of everything. The transition from capitalism to communism or vice versa should happen gradually not in a single stroke.
USSR is the one and only one pioneered in world's first satellite, spacecraft, manned and unmanned capsules & space station, Super sonic plane. In everything they are the first to implement. Now it may take some time for the govt to reestablish Russia. But its for sure. I will be one among to feel proud that i live in this earth along with Soviets, their technological ability doesn't stops to only graphics and animation but to reality.
| Quote: | | Todays Russia is becoming more and more like Russia was back in the 1950s/60s. Except it's modernizing...cutting down on waste...centralizing the government giving total control to the Kremlin (Putin)... |
To create a balance control should be applied from nerve center, what I'm saying is not only science but also holds good to politics. now USSR is something like a crumpled glass, Putin is trying to join the pieces and put it back to shape. Putin as a president doing simply his job, if this is wrong and if its misunderstood as anti democracy then the definition of democracy needs to be republished. Situation in a particular country is directly experienced by its citizens, where as the stuff quoted by medias like BBC or CNN is a document for revenue generation, often they mis inform than realistic ones. Russia is badly described by Hollywood and United studios also by computer games. This create a wrong impression, to know what Russians think about west try to read Russia news paper like Moscow times and watch Russian movies. both sides think negatively at each other but in reality both govt needs to be blamed not the people. This is a communication gap.
What ever is portrayed so far is wrong, if you take afghan, without Russia afghan is nothing. simply a place for terrorist and drug godowns. Russians have good heart and Russian women are intelligent and very kind loving gender in this world. there might be corruption and malpractice. when you are hungry for a day you do what ever you want to satisfy your appetite, this action can't be blamed, its a situation and a individual is not responsible. |
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Rimski
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | Ha...interesting perspectives people! The fact is...no US president including Bush has killed as many of thier own citizens as that which Stalin Did...and that is a fact!!!! |
The fact is that during Operation Condor, in Latin America, the US helped (and wanted) other governments to kill their own citizens. The murders of political opponents were planned with the support of US intelligence. Democratically elected presidents collaborated secretly with criminals!
These presidents, that don't kill their own citizens, are criminals too.
| surfguy wrote: | | Ok the deal in Iraq is about oil! |
And when it's about oil, the war is right? To have an idea of deaths due to US intervention in the world, see this link: http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm
| surfguy wrote: | | Russia deals with are the same as what the USA is dealing with...Chechnya!!! |
Chechnya is a part of the Federation of Russia. It's not located in south America nor in the Antarctic. No comparison with Irak, and in Chechnya there is no war between chechens. Futhermore western intelligence (CIA/MI6) are helping chechen rebels. They are interesting by oil! in the caspian sea. The chechens are manipulated by the West. Radical islam in Chechnya is an ally of the West...
| surfguy wrote: | | And Kosovo was a far greater non based reason for action than Iraq. And that was Clinton not Bush. We...the UN had no reason to go into there. |
Kosovo? US are responsible of the ethnic wars there. They have contributed to the mess. "There were ethnic and religious differences between various parts of Yugoslavia which were manipulated by the U.S. to cause several wars which resulted in the dissolution of that country. See the link above.
The champions of Democracy (... Johnson... Nixon... Clinton...) are all criminals too!
Last edited by Rimski on Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Ванкувер, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Agree with Rimski 100% |
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yorbcbud
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4903
Location: Сорренто, Британская Колумбия, Канада
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| RusskiCanadian23 wrote: | | Agree with Rimski 100% |
I second that! Never, have truer words been spoken, ( except, of course, when I say them ) Well said, Rimski. |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Rimskii...what is your point? I just said that I didn't agree with the US position on Kosovo. Also you keep comparing Our President's with Stalin...my point about Stalin is that he killed his own citizens...more than 20 million...and no US president has done so. Ok as far as how many people of the world the US has killed...that is not what I am debating or arguing. So I can care less about operation Condor...it's irrelevant to my arguement. Ok reading my other posts...I do not support the aid to Chechnya by the USA...so why are you discussing this with me....my point was that in the war on terror is against islamo facist...which both Russia and the USA and the EU are having to deal with. Also because I say this is all about oil doesn't mean I agree with it...I am merely pointing out the root cause of all of this nonsense. Yes Clinton...nixon...Johnson...yes all criminals as are so many others...no arguement there! So what is the point of this discussion...I have always been against terrorists...one side of all of this is the jihad aspect...it's the means to supply and support and cause terrorism. But the war at the upper echelons of all parties involved.is oil and economics. Is it right...probably not. But unfortunately it's the way it is. |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Agree with Rimski 100% |
Did clinton did anything wrong, I don't know much about the happenings during his tenure. except he was caught in scandal. I expect the same shouldn't occur to Hilary.
| Quote: | | and no US president has done so. |
What about Hitler and Hiroshima and Nagasaki after attacks. Even after the war babies are born with defects and agriculture is totally impossible in that soil for many years. Its not like our citizen or foreign citizen, its about a human being. Sep 11 attacks are mastered by Bin laden adviced by Bush family to create a panic in US so that bush can win elections by campaigning war on..... its a mystery bin laden is alive or not, but videos are always coming, Bush can simply use it to rule US by his party men.
Now who is responsible for Sep'11 attacks, Laden or the one who supported Laden, in this juncture numerous innocent Citizens including US nationals are killed and 2 insurance companies gone bankrupt.
Last edited by bswaminathan on Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| well this discussion has gone on now for a year...and really the topic in this thread is Russia. When it comes to GEO POLITICAL issues...there is nothing we can really do...I just want to be able to travel and see the world and not have to worry over safety. Oil is not my deal...politics can always cause hate...really though there are good people every where with a lot in common. Stalin how ever was never one of them. |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | When it comes to GEO POLITICAL issues...there is nothing we can really do |
Ya u r right, an individual can't twist anything. But, its the people of a country elect a ruler so one must know the both sides of a ruler and this should reflect in opinion poll. One always have the right to question govt activities as the rulers are none but servants appointed by people. |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Did everybody fall off the freaken plant?...  |
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bswaminathan
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Did everybody fall off the freaken plant?... |
Spectator, there you are |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| bswaminathan wrote: | | Quote: | | When it comes to GEO POLITICAL issues...there is nothing we can really do |
Ya u r right, an individual can't twist anything. But, its the people of a country elect a ruler so one must know the both sides of a ruler and this should reflect in opinion poll. One always have the right to question govt activities as the rulers are none but servants appointed by people. |
well yes that is what we hope for...but have to understand too...in the USA it makes no difference as to who is president when it comes to international affairs...Democrat or Republican...they all follow the same agenda. The Clinton administration's agenda for Iraq was Regime change! Bush merely carried it out. This is about Oil! And all presidents since the days of Rockefeller have followed the same agenda regarding it. Who ever controls the world's energy supply controls the world! Think about this....it is so very true! |
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