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Rimski
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 58
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 Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: Russia and Serbia: the stupid alliance. |
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I don' know exactly why Moscow is against the independance of Kosovo. I also don't understand why Russia is supporting Serbia in this case. The people of Serbia is guilty of genocide; it attempted an ethnic purification in the 90's (in Bosnia).
It's a shame that a nation as Russia support such criminals....
If Russia wants to play an international role, maybe helping Cuba would be better for its image. Especially if the government after Castro era remains anti-american.
Just an idea.
Last edited by Rimski on Sat May 17, 2008 9:54 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Âàíêóâåð, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Russia and Serbia: a bad alliance... for Russia. |
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| Rimski wrote: | I don' know exactly why Moscow is against the independance of Kosovo. I also dont understand why Russia is supporting Serbia in this case. The people of Serbia is guilty of genocide; it attempted an ethnical purification in the 90's (in Bosnia).
It's a shame that a nation as Russia support such criminals....
Just my point of view. |
The real genocide was commited against the Serbian people by Albanian Islamist terrorists, and by NATO helping them! How many Albanians and Bosnians died in that war? Maybe a few thousands. Hudreds of thousands of Serbs perished! Like I mentioned here before, my own friend, Luka Mladic, a full-blood Serbian lost his entire family: first his parents and his brother died after a NATO bomb fell on their house, and then Albanian cowards in Kosovo raped and killed his wife and killed their newborn baby too! I can tell you this: I am Russian, and I have no mercy for Albanian pigs! Not a tad of feeling for them! Nada! May they all die horribly and rot in hell for an eternity! |
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StephenB.
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Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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The Russians and Serbs are allies. They share the same religion and Slavic culture. Kosovo is an important region where the majority of Orthodox monasteries are based, the Serbs have been there for close to a thousand years. The Kosovo Albanians are Muslim and radical who enjoyed five hundred years living under the Muslim Turks and warred against the Serb population in the Kosovo region for centuries with the help of the Turks. However, after Milosevic was taken out, the Albanians from Greater Albania, Bosnia and parts of Macedonia swelled into the Kosovo region to destroy most of the small Serbian population that lived there. It's a complex region with its own history, but to say that the Serbs are at fault is wrong. Albanians have been attacking the Serbian population since the fall of communism in that region. Milosevic decided to get revenge for the centuries of Serb repression under the Muslim Turks/
Albanians. I don't agree with Milosevic..he was a nut of course.
Read this:
http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/foreword.html |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Âàíêóâåð, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't agree with Milosevic..he was a nut of course |
The guy fought for his people, the Serbs. What's wrong with that? I think he was a very noble, honourable man, actually. Not everyone would choose to suffer and die for his country, and his people, like he did. Sertainly not that coward Gorby, who actually helped bring his own country down... Now there's a man who didn't and still doesn't understand even the meaning of "honour"!  |
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surfguy
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6979
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| F&*k the Albanians...they make me sick when I see them playing dominoes at the cafe near my house. They did a lot of bad to the Serbs and I am ashamed of my country for supporting thier cause. All for oil too...Clinton was so wrong and evil for doing what he did. |
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StephenB.
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Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| RusskiCanadian23 wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't agree with Milosevic..he was a nut of course |
The guy fought for his people, the Serbs. What's wrong with that? I think he was a very noble, honourable man, actually. Not everyone would choose to suffer and die for his country, and his people, like he did. Sertainly not that coward Gorby, who actually helped bring his own country down... Now there's a man who didn't and still doesn't understand even the meaning of "honour"! |
Milosevic should have done things differently in Kosovo. He caused more harm to the Serbian people than good. There use to be at least 45% of Serbs in Kosovo now there is only less than 8% of Serbs. He could have had a stronger border control between Albania and Kosovo, thus preventing illegal immigratation of more ethnic Albanians coming in. Once he started the war with the Albanians hundreds flooded in from Albania, Macedonia and the diaspora to fight the Serbs. Milosevic could have gotten UNESCO involved to protect Serbian Monasteries that were very important historical buildings for the Serbs before his campaign. He should have squashed all Albanian Muslim radicals earlier on, however, he was catering to the Serbian population in and around Belgrade. The Albanians already had the upper hand in Kosovo before Milosevic attacked. He ignored the cries of the Serbs of Kosovo long before he attacked the Albanians, therefore, he did more harm to his own people. Look at the situation now, Kosovo is mostly Albanian because the Western countries sided with the Albanians first, not really knowing who the real villians (muslim Albanians) were. |
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mister_wizzz
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Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| surfguy wrote: | | F&*k the Albanians...they make me sick when I see them playing dominoes at the cafe near my house. They did a lot of bad to the Serbs and I am ashamed of my country for supporting thier cause. All for oil too...Clinton was so wrong and evil for doing what he did. |
It is strange that you blame Clinton for what he did in Kosovo and not Bush in Iraq... both for oil according to you.
Actually, horrors are in both sides but i agree that the UCK was and still is a bunch of Maffiosi. But let's face it, Milosivic made war to the Albanians pretexting the protection of the Serb minority... that's exactly what Hitler did with the Czech in 1938. The Serbs had the occasion to negociate peace with Ibrahim Rugova who was absolutly the opposite of a fanatic and finally sign "the peace of the braves" but Milosevic prefered war...
There is a french proverb who say "Qui sème au vent récolte la tempête"
translation : "Who sow to the wind harvest the storm"
Milosevic sowed the seeds of hate and harversted the storm. |
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jo-jo-7
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mister_wizzz wrote: | | surfguy wrote: | | F&*k the Albanians...they make me sick when I see them playing dominoes at the cafe near my house. They did a lot of bad to the Serbs and I am ashamed of my country for supporting thier cause. All for oil too...Clinton was so wrong and evil for doing what he did. |
It is strange that you blame Clinton for what he did in Kosovo and not Bush in Iraq... both for oil according to you.
Actually, horrors are in both sides but i agree that the UCK was and still is a bunch of Maffiosi. But let's face it, Milosivic made war to the Albanians pretexting the protection of the Serb minority... that's exactly what Hitler did with the Czech in 1938. The Serbs had the occasion to negociate peace with Ibrahim Rugova who was absolutly the opposite of a fanatic and finally sign "the peace of the braves" but Milosevic prefered war...
There is a french proverb who say "Qui sème au vent récolte la tempête"
translation : "Who sow to the wind harvest the storm"
Milosevic sowed the seeds of hate and harversted the storm. |
Or, "You made your bed, now you lay in it"......  |
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msinisa
Frequent Guest
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: Russia and Serbia |
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Russia is a big brother of Serbia. whenever Serbia was in war with Turks, Austrians, Germans, in the same war was Russia. We are like an indicator, of the tide coming at Belgrade, after short time the same tide is coming to Moscow.
During the 90es Russia was weak and lossed all it's allies, NATO is now near Moscow. What is good for Russia? To make a shield which would stretch from Karelia, Kaliningrad, Bielorussia to Serbia. Is it better for Russia if Americans install it's bases all across Serbia, so they can hit Russia?
Or it's better for Russia to start it's defence and comes behind NATO shield in Romania, Hungary and Poland?
Kosovo has simple history, it was for more than 1000 years Serbian state,
During the Turkish rule, Albanians embraced Islam, and as a converts were extreme Islamic people, hating Christians more than anything else.
Albanian illegal immigrants came to Kosovo in large numbers during Communist rule, they all got papers from Tito's communists.
In Serbian kingdom they were against Serbs, in Communism, and now in Democracy, they destroy Christian churches, kill Serbian children etc. |
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msinisa
Frequent Guest
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: Sudettlands and Kosovo |
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Sudettlands were anexed by the German reich, and the same situation is that NATO and Albanians want part of Serbia to annex into NATO-Albanian state.
As we say in Serbia, we waited 500 years to liberate Kosovo from Turks, this time we'll wait a lott less! |
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RusskiCanadian23
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada/Âàíêóâåð, Áðèòàíñêàÿ Êîëóìáèÿ, Êàíàäà
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen, Slobodan was one of the greatest men to ever have lived! Just look at his name: Slobodan. "Sloboda" means "Freedom", "Liberty" in Serbian, and also, I believe, in Bulgarian too. Tht is what he wanted for the Serbians: to live a free, proud, strong nation that they are! And he was FORCED to go to war to get this: the NATO/EU/UN wouldn't help him, neither would Yeltsin's Russia. He was on his own against Albanian terrorists who threatened to destroy his country! |
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raptor10
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Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 15
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Exchange of telegrams between Tsar Nicholas Alexandrovich Romanov of Russia and his cousin, Kaiser Friedrich Wilhelm Victor Albert of Germany, on the eve of World War I. The Russian army mobilized on July 29, the German army on July 31. The first shots were fired on August 20.
• Tsar to Kaiser, July 29, 1:00 A.M.
Peter's Court Palais,
Sa Majesté l'Empereur
Neues Palais
Am glad you are back. In this serious moment, I appeal to you to help me. An ignoble war has been declared to a weak country. The indignation in Russia shared fully by me is enormous. I foresee that very soon I shall be overwhelmed by the pressure forced upon me and be forced to take extreme measures which will lead to war. To try and avoid such a calamity as a European war, I beg you in the name of our old friendship to do what you can to stop your allies from going too far.
Nicky
• Kaiser to Tsar, July 29, 1:15 A.M.
(This and the previous telegraph crossed.)
It is with the gravest concern that I hear of the impression which the action of Austria against Serbia is creating in your country. The unscrupulous agitation that has been going on in Serbia for years has resulted in the outrageous crime, to which Archduke Francis Ferdinand fell a victim. The spirit that led Serbians to murder their own king and his wife still dominates the country. You will doubtless agree with me that we both, you and me, have a common interest, as well as all sovereigns, to insist that all the persons morally responsible for the dastardly murder should receive their deserved punishment. In this case, politics plays no part at all.
On the other hand, I fully understand how difficult it is for you and your government to face the drift of your public opinion. Therefore, with regard to the hearty and tender friendship which binds us both from long ago with firm ties, I am exerting my utmost influence to induce the Austrians to deal straightly to arrive to a satisfactory understanding with you. I confidently hope that you will help me in my efforts to smooth over difficulties that may still arise.
Your very sincere and devoted friend and cousin,
Willy
• Kaiser to Tsar, July 29, 6:30 P.M.
Berlin
I received your telegram and share your wish that peace should be maintained. But as I told you in my first telegram, I cannot consider Austria's action against Serbia an “ignoble” war. Austria knows by experience that Serbian promises on paper are wholly unreliable. I understand its action must be judged as trending to get full guarantee that the Serbian promises shall become real facts. This, my reasoning, is borne out by the statement of the Austrian cabinet that Austria does not want to make any territorial conquests at the expense of Serbia. I therefore suggest that it would be quite possible for Russia to remain a spectator of the Austro-Serbian conflict without involving Europe in the most horrible war she ever witnessed. I think a direct understanding between your government and Vienna possible and desirable, and as I already telegraphed to you, my government is continuing its exercises to promote it. Of course, military measures on the part of Russia would be looked upon by Austria as a calamity we both wish to avoid and jeopardize my position as mediator, which I readily accepted on your appeal to my friendship and my help.
Willy
• Tsar to Kaiser, July 29, 8:20 P.M.
Peter's Court Palais
Thanks for your telegram conciliatory and friendly. Whereas official message presented today by your ambassador to my minister was conveyed in a very different tone. Beg you to explain this divergency! It would be right to give over the Austro-Serbian problem to the Hague conference. Trust in your wisdom and friendship.
Your loving Nicky
• Tsar to Kaiser, July 30, 1:20 A.M.
Peter's Court Palais
Thank you heartily for your quick answer. Am sending Tatischev this evening with instructions. The military measures which have now come into force were decided five days ago for reasons of defense on account of Austria's preparations. I hope from all my heart that these measures won't in any way interfere with your part as mediator which I greatly value. We need your strong pressure on Austria to come to an understanding with us.
Nicky
• Kaiser to Tsar, July 30, 1:20 A.M.
Berlin
Best thanks for telegram. It is quite out of the question that my ambassador’s language could have been in contradiction with the tenor of my telegram. Count Pourtalès was instructed to draw the attention of your government to the danger & grave consequences involved by a mobilization; I said the same in my telegram to you. Austria has only mobilized against Serbia & only a part of her army. If, as it is now the case, according to the communication by you & your government, Russia mobilizes against Austria, my role as mediator you kindly entrusted me with, & which I accepted at your express prayer, will be endangered if not ruined. The whole weight of the decision lies solely on your shoulders now, who have to bear the responsibility for Peace or War.
Willy
• Kaiser to Tsar, July 31
Berlin
On your appeal to my friendship and your call for assistance, I began to mediate between your and the Austro-Hungarian government. While this action was proceeding, your troops were mobilized against Austro-Hungary, my ally. Thereby, as I have already pointed out to you, my mediation has been made almost illusory.
I have nevertheless continued my action. I now receive authentic news of serious preparations for war on my eastern frontier. Responsibility for the safety of my empire forces preventive measures of defense upon me. In my endeavors to maintain the peace of the world, I have gone to the utmost limit possible. The responsibility for the disaster which is now threatening the whole civilized world will not be laid at my door. In this moment it still lies in your power to avert it. Nobody is threatening the honor or power of Russia who can well afford to await the result of my mediation. My friendship for you and your empire, transmitted to me by my grandfather on his deathbed, has always been sacred to me, and I have honestly often backed up Russia when she was in serious trouble, especially in her last war.
The peace of Europe may still be maintained by you, if Russia will agree to stop the milit. measures which must threaten Germany and Austro-Hungary.
Willy
• Tsar to Kaiser, July 31
(This and the previous telegram crossed.)
Petersburg
I thank you heartily for your mediation, which begins to give one hope that all may yet end peacefully. It is technically impossible to stop our military preparations which were obligatory owing to Austria's mobilization. We are far from wishing war. As long as the negotiations with Austria on Serbia's account are taking place, my troops shall not make any provocative action. I give you my solemn word for this. I put all my trust in God’s mercy and hope in your successful mediation in Vienna for the welfare of our countries and for the peace of Europe.
Your affectionate,
Nicky
• Tsar to Kaiser, August 1
Peter's Court, Palais
I received your telegram. Understand you are obliged to mobilize but wish to have the same guarantee from you as I gave you, that these measures do not mean war and that we shall continue negotiating for the benefit of our countries and universal peace dear to all our hearts. Our long proved friendship must succeed, with God's help, in avoiding bloodshed. Anxiously, full of confidence, await your answer.
Nicky
• Kaiser to Tsar, August 1
Berlin
Thanks for your telegram. I yesterday pointed out to your government the way by which alone war may be avoided. Although I requested an answer for noon today, no telegram from my ambassador conveying an answer from your government has reached me as yet. I therefore have been obliged to mobilize my army.
Immediate, affirmative, clear, and unmistakable answer, from your government is the only way to avoid endless misery. Until I have received this answer, alas, I am unable to discuss the subject of your telegram. As a matter of fact, I must request you to immediately order your troops on no account to commit the slightest act of trespassing over our frontiers.
Willy
[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img] |
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Rimski
Frequent Guest
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| StephenB. wrote: | | The Russians and Serbs are allies. They share the same religion and Slavic culture. |
And i suppose they also share the taste of racisme and ethnic purification? The taste of crime! The serbs are under-developped people. I mean, mentally. There are not frequentable. |
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mister_wizzz
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Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Rimski wrote: | | StephenB. wrote: | | The Russians and Serbs are allies. They share the same religion and Slavic culture. |
And i suppose they also share the taste of racisme and ethnic purification? The taste of crime! The serbs are under-developped people. I mean, mentally. There are not frequentable. |
mmm I don't think so. There are a lot Serbs in my country (France) and at that time (Kosovo war) 2 of my working colleagues were Serb and Slobodan Milosevic and his bellicist policy made them sick.
Actually, the Serbs themselves kicked Milosevic out of Serbia to the International Court of La Haye and nobody in Serbia give a shit to Milosevic remind. He was a small dictator who was dreaming to be great and he died in a miserable way, humiliated, alone in a cell. he even didn't have the balls to shoot his head off what Hitler did... |
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msinisa
Frequent Guest
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: The truth of nato nazism |
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People in Serbia will remember of 90es as years of sanctions, years when Jelcin's Russia didn't care for Russia itself, for us, or wasn't able.
Noone in Serbia thinks Slobo was wrong in it's politics of protecting Serbs in former Yugoslavia. Many people thought that his party mismanaged our economy, and with sanctions we had no chance to live.
If you ask any Serb, 80% will tell you that Hague is a court of unjustice, and that Slobo should never be sent there.
Sanctions were a crime against humanity, many Serbs were starving, babies were dying in hospitals, elder people had no medications.
Europe showed us it's fascist face, and in majority opinion, Europe deserved bombs and atomic bombs to be punished for the crimes they did closing Serbian borders, making a concentration camp, with it's NATO guards.
NATO bombed Serbs in Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia, using weapons which is
war crime, crime against humanity (cluster bombs, bombs with uranium)
Many children died, most of the people that died in 1999 were civilians, and not soldiers. With all it's might, NATO destroyed 4-5 tanks, but too many civilian bridges, schools, factories. |
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