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Sharing what we believe about Jesus Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

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Author	Message
Patrick01 Frequent Guest Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Tennessee, USA	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:29 am    Post subject: Sharing what we believe about Jesus I have stated this topic mainely because some of us have diverted another topic "The online dating game" to a religious discussion. The topic itself is important to me because I am a Christian and plan to visit Moscow this March. I would like to make friends with Russians of like mind the same as some of you have expressed when talking about visiting clubs, making friends, etc. In preparation of that visit I am curious about how Russians view Jesus. I know that most Russians in Moscow are familar with this biblical person and have formed some view about who he was and maybe know something about his ministry. Non- Russians are also encouraged to share their views. Maybe together we can unravel the truth of this mystery man and help the Russians who for many years were taught there was no God. Please feel free to correct any statement or generalization in text above.
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Patrick01 Frequent Guest Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Tennessee, USA	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:53 am    Post subject: This message is being transferred from http://waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/viewtopic.php?t=1935&start=30 and will be continued here. Alexeis Zemanova wrote: Jesus' mind, being the only one of pure consistency, was just about the only mind God would wish to inhabite, that's why he had to wait so long, for mankind to evolve. Jesus was literally the first human being who had a pure, clear mind. [/u] Alexeis, You are undoubtedly a man of great intellect with a heart that strives for the truth. Thank you for openly sharing your thoughts. You are covering alot of territy because I Asked too general of a question. So let's look at this one quoted statement to begin a discussion. I agree with your opinion of Jesus and his purity. Now I must ask do you believe waht he said about himself in the Bible. The problem here is that if you believe the Bible writers incorrectly recorded his words or have changed them to fit what they want you to believe then we have a problem. Maybe if we look at each reference one at a time and you and anyone else in this forum can comment. 14:6 (New International Version) Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Can you except this as being a statement made by Jesus? Ok it's 10:50 pm (eastern Time Zone) and my bedtime. I'll be back in the morning. Thanks Alexeis and anyone who participates in this discussion
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Anathema Lounge Lizard Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 186 Location: Phoenix, Аризона	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:06 am    Post subject: Firstly my comment in the other thread wasn't to be taken seriously. It was a joke. Now onto the topic at hand. I don't believe in Jesus. I chose logic over blind faith.
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Alexeis-Zemanova Frequent Guest Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 61	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:49 am    Post subject: Yes I can. By matter of simple logic. Because i would look around, see the rest of the world, hear what they have to say, then hear Jesus, think, "ok this makes a lot of sense..he says he's the way; by using the logical part of my brain i came to that conclusion myself anyway, so sure..." Whether or not I implemented it would be a different matter, but from a purely practical standpoint, until somebody else shows up who has a more miraculous impact on the world, it's safe to say he's got a very, very good point. From a spiritual viewpoint, again, i can't imagine imagine anyone else who preaches on such a higher level than him, the Zoroastrian Persians came very close for their time, but even they came to pay homage to Jesus. Manipulation of the Bible has never been an issue with me. Of course there are different versions, but invariably inevitable within the translation process. Most Christians have at one time or another probably had Jehovah's winesses trying to prove Angel Michael is really Jesus and showed them their texts which have some verses which aren't even remotely similar. Yeah it can be confusing, but I feel one needs to visit all these places, read some ancient texts, including countless authentic scriptures from the kings to land-owners to simple Jewish farm-boys which were never even part of the Bible(and not even known to exist by many Christians!), and read up history properly before one can talk inconsistencies. The same applies to anyone who would like to make a case as to why their version of the Bible was the true version. If I'm honest the question on The Books of Apocrypha needs to be addressed more, though..
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Dr-Fauste Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: Patrick I really do not want to rip your faith apart. I am glad that you believe and I am happy for you. I promised Dennis that I would not knock down Christianity, because there is many good Christians in the world. So please stop this bible thumping.
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Patrick01 Frequent Guest Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Tennessee, USA	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:59 pm    Post subject: Dr Fauste wrote: Patrick I really do not want to rip your faith apart. I am glad that you believe and I am happy for you. I promised Dennis that I would not knock down Christianity, because there is many good Christians in the world. So please stop this bible thumping. Dr Fauste With all due respect and I due respect your opinions and advise. Well maybe I didn't believe you spent Christmas in the county jail. I understand your anger and justified dissapointment in the Roman Catholic Church. I caution you for your sake, anger can lead to bitterness and bitterness makes it hard for us to enjoy what time we have left on Earth. It also seeks to destroy the friendships we all want to develop. Don't confuse the messenger (Priests, etc) with the message (God's love) and the author (God). The true messenger (God's Word and His son Jesus Christ ) will not betray your trust. Actually I've never been called a Bible thumper. Look again at the stated purpose of this topic. Please allow this topic as another way to get to know the Russians and others that have been drawn here in hopes of visiting that country. pat, the Bible thumper, sometimes known as Paddy. I'm not actually just Irish I'm a "mute" like most Americans whose ancestors arrived here over 200 years ago. So far I can trace Irish, German, and English.
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Dr-Fauste Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:47 pm    Post subject: See I really do not want to get a debate about christianity, because I will just upset you and many others. Quote: Don't confuse the messenger (Priests, etc) with the message (God's love) and the author (God). The true messenger (God's Word and His son Jesus Christ ) will not betray your trust. This cannot be true, because the bible is not perfect. If it was perfect, then everyone would have the same message and interpretation of it. Since God is perfect and the bible is not, thus the bible is not the true words of God, but book written by man inspired by God. Your message is based on book inspired by God, not written by God, therefore your message is not pure. Thus why we have some many interpretations of the bible.
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Alexeis-Zemanova Frequent Guest Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 61	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:46 pm    Post subject: Dr Dr (Can't you see I'm burning, burning..?) Now if somebody was preaching a message of love, and wasn't asking for cash/civil liberties in return, I would have to say there is good reason to take serious notice and once again would probably stress: Quote: Yeah it can be confusing, but I feel one needs to visit all these places, read some ancient texts, including countless authentic scriptures from the kings to land-owners to simple Jewish farm-boys which were never even part of the Bible(and not even known to exist by many Christians!), and read up history properly before one can talk inconsistencies. The same applies to anyone who would like to make a case as to why their version of the Bible was the true version. Even if you were to take the certain things that Jesus was known to have done, the things that even the Koran(which IS an unblemished script) would acknowledge he had done; then there is still enough to go on.. We see the effects in the world when Military-service-shirking people like W. try to push Muslims under one catorgary. He promptly gets told about it ...and has essentially made their faith even stronger.. Likewise, please don't push Catholics in the same direction, too .. Yes, there are some horrific instances, no question, but once again, that is 'our' program; there is not one shred of evidence to show that God wanted it that way.(In fact EVERYTHING points to the opposite..) Its the humans that are evil. It's people like Ronald McDonald Rumsfeld who are evil. Its the people like shithead Wolfowitz and Dickhead Cheney in the USA who raise paranoia for there own agenda, and scare innocent people half to death, that's evil. Yet many of you support these fucking freaks then have the audacity to question things written which talk of love, compassion... LOL! No wonder Jesus said we needed his help!! PS don't worry about upsetting me on such matters. I come from the blood of the three great religions. There is nothing you could tell me that the world hasn't already told me itself..
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Randy Lounge Lizard Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 115 Location: Texas, USA	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:06 pm    Post subject: The Bible Doc, I agree with you somewhat about the bible not being perfect, and that subject has been discussed in most all Seminaries, and by most all theologian's since the begining of it's exsistence. The bible has been translated to several languages before ever getting to english, and was first printed as a book in Germany on the Gutenberg Press. As we all know, that when you litterally translate one language to another the meanings can change drasticly. For example, the commandment that say's "Thou shalt not kill", to me actually means 'thou shalt not murder'. I believe the bible is written in parables as such so we each can interpret the meanings without a middleman to tell us what it means. But since we humans are consistant in making wrong interpretations it is good to have a church which we can go to to hear other's, then decide for ourselves as to which way is best for us individually. The bible, even if it is not perfect, is to me the only book of it's kind that fit's my needs. I have lived in a Muslim countries, lived with the Budhist, and the Hindu's, and while in each country I would study their faith to understand the culture. Although I am not a scholar of any, I still choose Christianity. As a Christian, I believe the only way to God is through our Lord, but there is no true religious faith that can claim they have the only path. Yes, I believe that you have to profess your exceptance of God by words, but not in front of a church congregation. Your walk, and talk with God should be a private thing I believe. As I grow older, my beliefs in God remain the same, but some things change. What has changed is I have my doubts that God didn't really intended for His churches to be the way they are today. The home churches in Russia I believe have the right idea. Oh well, these are just my thoughts...........
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Dr-Fauste Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Bla bla bla bla American is evil bla bla bla You are losing your Orwellian status my dear. How to say nothing in 1000 words. Quote: Now if somebody was preaching a message of love, and wasn't asking for cash/civil liberties in return, I would have to say there is good reason to take serious notice and once again would probably stress: Why? If someone says that I should take drugs or alcohol is my answer and says it lovingly, it is still wrong. Read Nausea Jean Paul Sartre and you will be enlightened Quote: Likewise, please don't push Catholics in the same direction, too .. Yes, there are some horrific instances, no question, but once again, that is 'our' program; there is not one shred of evidence to show that God wanted it that way.(In fact EVERYTHING points to the opposite..) Catholic church has lost its path since the Roman times aka why Protestants exist. They burnt the Great Library, They torture jews. THey killed in the name of God. THey oppressed intellected. They baptise and killed Native American babies to ensure they go to heaven. It is time the Catholic Church confesses their sins and ask forgiveness for the evils they have done. They preach the bible, but they do not live it.
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Dr-Fauste Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:22 pm    Post subject: Randy, you are correct. But do not forget that Hebrew and muslim are not that far from Christianity. Whether we belive that Jesus is son of god or great prophet or that you are atheist, does not diminish the words of the bible. If you take the religion out of the bible, but read it as a book, it is masterpiece of Wisdom.
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Alexeis-Zemanova Frequent Guest Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 61	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Doc my Orwellian status remains perfectly intact. As does my 'Newspeak'! Your comparison with drugs and alcolhol were so irrelevant; it is untrue. We both know that the Bible talks of more earthly things..Come on Doc... BTW I FULLY 100% agree with what you say about the Catholic Church. I just think it is a mistake to bunch Catholics who were born into their faith, in with SOME of the dishonest clergy arseholes. (although please read a little more on history to discover the true origins of the Protestant.) I have Catholic friends who greatly dislike their church, but also have equal contempt for the Church of England because of how they are treated. It's wrong to catorgarize people who have little or no contact with the politics of it all. W. made that mistake with Islam and is now paying a dear price. But like Vietnam, this is going to take a while before you agree with me..
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Dr-Fauste Site Admin Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 654	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Read Nausea by Sartre then say my comparison is incorrect. You do not understand the comparison until you read.
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Alexeis-Zemanova Frequent Guest Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 61	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Doc, I have read it. Your comparison is incorrect.
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Patrick01 Frequent Guest Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 49 Location: Tennessee, USA	Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:11 pm    Post subject: Waytorussian, aliceinwonderland, I need some pure Russian views posted here to go with what we have. Care to share? Or maybe that would be a good question to ask some locals. pat (Paddy)
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