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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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 Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Alexises Idonotreadova
You read so much and understand so little
LOL
Nausea was about two things in general that man gives himself to fill the need that he has no purpose and that we have do this to escape the void of life and darkness of our existence.
Thus according to Sartre
People follow religion to give themself a purpose in their existence and to escape the void. Drugs are the same thing to escape the void . They do not call alcohol the great escape for nothing. People have taken this one farther, that obession with drug when corrected will be transferred to another obession like REligion, training, or working long hours or obessing about George W & NWO  |
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blaked
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 180
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject: The Bible (sorry for the long post) |
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The Bible is like the curate's egg: parts of it were excellent. Genesis and Exodus were good for a while (in a Lord of the Rings way.) Deuteronomy can be amusing if interpreted as satire, in the way that the Simpsons lampoon the local police department by noting that it is illegal in Springfield to put squirrels down your pants for the purpose of gambling. Lamentations was a bit thoughtful, as was most of Psalms and other things written by Solomon were just as good. Ezekiel was on par with many of the best insane black street preachers in Times Square.
My biggest problem with the Bible is that I didn't enjoy the gospels. Jesus, the main character, comes off as a bit of a masochist, and a homosexual one at that. They are in many ways an apology for why Jesus didn't use his powers to dominate people, and that by subjecting himself to them he was ultimately more powerful. It is the mentality of the battered wife, the oppressed serf; ultimately it was to prove politically useful because it conditioned believers to kneel before their oppressors. Many contend that this is a modern construction engineered under the emperor Constantine in order to salvage the Roman Empire (in many ways it worked; Byzantium was not conquered until the first decade of 1200, and then only because it fell victim to the treachery of crusaders.) |
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castilho
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject: Bible |
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Blaked. You're responsible for the most amuse opinion posted here. At least, somebody who does not take everything so serious. That's the best way to get rid of all guilty.
I recomend you, modestly, to read the Bhagavad Gita. I'm quite sure you'll like it. And all Vaishnava toughts. |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick01 wrote: | Waytorussian, aliceinwonderland,
I need some pure Russian views posted here to go with what we have.
Care to share? Or maybe that would be a good question to ask some locals.
pat (Paddy) |
I'm afraid to seem shallow in such .. society... but i find all this discussion about God and bible sooooooooooo boring, if you'd try to talk to me about this in real life i'm afraid i'd fall asleep. |
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Alexeis-Zemanova
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Doc,
Your interpretation of Satre is different to mine. Extremely different.
Indeed, his proposed ideas we probably agree on were most interesting, certainly taking into consideration his environment, but i feel it ends there.
Even if he was right, he was still wrong, because he never came up with the perfect alternative.
Rather like the person who sees an elephant and shouts, "thats a horse!!" Now, he's actually seen neither, therfore has no frame of reference to point from, but still screams it anyway, because he doesn't like what he sees.
(Don't get me wrong, though, some of his ideas were very, very good.)
Blaked,
You made some funny points but your second paragraph descended into bullshit.
Christianity has it's history in the Middle East; which has passed down from generation. Just because Europe can't get it's act together about the past, doesn't immediately dissolve what actually happened over there. There are parts of the Middle East which, to this day, have never been Euro-influenced, and they seem to hold the belief that Jesus was a passive kind of guy.
Castilho,
FACT: Bhagavad Gita came from Zend Avesta
FACT: Zend Avesta was book of Zoroastrians
FACT: Zoroastrians came to pay homage to the baby Jesus
FACT: Jesus was a Christian
FACT: By taking our seriousness so seriously, you have entered the circle of seriousness.
FACT: I've run out of facts, but didn't want to particularly end on the last one.
Last edited by Alexeis-Zemanova on Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Patrick01
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Tennessee, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| AliceFromMoscow wrote: |
I'm afraid to seem shallow in such .. society... but i find all this discussion about God and bible sooooooooooo boring, if you'd try to talk to me about this in real life i'm afraid i'd fall asleep. |
Alice,
Maybe you just answered my question. But what to do personally believe about Jesus? |
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Patrick01
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Tennessee, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Alice,
I am reposting what I have already written about how I became a Christian. Maybe we can discuss who Jesus is in terms of how he has effected our life.
| Quote: | At this point allow me to use my own experience and why I feel that I am a Christian.
There came a point in my life that I realized there was something missing in my life, that there was some kind of void or inner longing that I was unable to fill. This occured after years of trying to be "happy" and "content" and being unable to fill that emptyness for anything except for short periods of time.
The Bible describes this void in
Acts 17:27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. Here is the full text:
From one ancestor [God] made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him - though indeed he is not far from each one of us. For "in him we live and move and have our being."2 Acts 17:26-28.
NIV
So my understanding is that God placed within me a void that would compel me to search for Him.
Even though I was raised in a Protestant Church and was a baptized member I didn't know what to do about the void so by tradition I begin to look in the Bible for answers. This is in spite of the fact that I had left the church many years before. Also that I had spent the last 15 years reading from the Bible almost daily. The reading didn't really help me or change my behavior.
I decided that I would just "turn over a new leaf" and change myself. It didn't work and the void was not filled.
I did start back to church but only on Sunday mornings and some changes began to occur. Here is the scripture that describes the experience
James 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. NIV
God was drawing near to me.
As time went on I began to realize that many of my actions were contrary to what God expected of me. I started to feel guilt. The kind you feel when you do something you know is wrong. Again I decide to turn over a new leaf and "be good". Again it did not work.
Later the guilty feelings turned to shame. I didn't feel guilty because I had broken laws etc. but because I was doing things that I knew were against God.
Romans 6:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
I read one of those little booklets that tell you how to have peace with God. So I prayed that prayer and decided that I must now be a Christian. But I noticed that nothing really changed.
The second time I read through the booklet and prayed the prayer I just knew I must be a Christian. So I felt compelled for some reason to ask the pastor of the church I was attending to let me join his church. He consented and on a Wednesday before baptizing me , required for membership, he asked if I had asked Jesus to forgive my wrong doings and enter my heart. I answered in the affirmative and sat down.
While I was sitting there I felt this load of guilt lifted from my shoulders and the void I had felt for so long was replaced with joy. In my opinion I had finally become a Christian. The void has never returned and the joy has never left.
You need to realize that all during this experience that took place over a period of 4 months that I was doing the following:
(1) recognizing that I had a void and could not fill it.
(2) excepting the fact that I was doing wrong toward God.
(3) discovering that God had made a way for me to have fellowship with Him (through Jesus Christ His son).
(4) that this "way" meant that Jesus Christ His son had to die a cruel death before God could forgive me.
(5) that Jesus had to prove he has power over death by coming back alive again.
(6) and that to replace the void with peace meant I had to believe what Jesus did, ask for forgiveness, and ask for God to fill my heart.
Actually it was rather simple in hind sight.
Here are the verses that applied to my situation:
Romans 2:23 ...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life iin Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...
Romans 10:9-11 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised again.
Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
I covered a lot in a small space. You you are still curious I'll be gad to explain more.
Pat |
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castilho
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: Gita |
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It's hard to say that, Alexeis. Bhagavad Gita belongs to vedic wisdom, from IV century BC. But nobody knows exactly when it was created. Anyway, with or without relationship with Jesus, it has some of the best and most intense verses of religion literature.
Happy New Year. I hope Liverpool team will be better in 2005. |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Who is Jesus?... According to bible Jesus is the son of God. So God is begetter of Jesus. Then who is begetter of God??... He could not just appear from nowhere... and he couldn't create anything out of nowhere, this is just a law of material, if you want to get something you need to convert something else into it. So who is begetter of god?.. according to faith god is an intelligent creature so he has to be a link of evolution of some organism too. In other words god is an alien organism... Or we have another variant that i already mentioned in another thread: All this world was artificially created in some machine. Then god is so easy to explain, he is the main processor, he can "create" things out of nowhere, he rules the universe, he is absolute and omnipresent, he is almighty. So we either live in artificial world, or if we dont, then god is some alien organism(not exactly material - who knows how billions of years long evolutions can look like)
What i wanted to say is that if there is some higher organism(or machine) watching us, it doesnt make any difference how you act or think, because when you die you are going to go to some other world(to the only real world perhaps?) Or if we were created in a machine, then maybe when you die you just automatically get erased, so the RAM doesnt get overfilled with useless data? |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | [Sartre attempts to classify one man's attempt to cope with the realization. It is almost as if one wakes up one day and realizes that one must forge out his or her own meaning in a cold and cruel world - nd end of innocence, so to speak. |
| Quote: | With his first novel, Sartre began to explore what would later come to be known as existentialism, or the philosophy that: 'Holds that there is no intrinsic meaning or purpose, therefore it is up to each individual to determine his own meaning and purpose and take responsibility for his actions'. While this line of philosophical thought does have its origins in Kierkegaard, it was in the writings of Simone de Beauvoir, Albert Camus and Sartre that these ideas were fully developed.
Antoine Roquentin is a solitary man, recently afflicted with a recurrent feeling, one that he terms 'the Nausea'. At times, he feels that life is repugnant, a vapid, shallow game between mindless people who have no real idea of their own purpose or consequence, himself included. At first he dismisses these feelings as the typical lonely thoughts of an ageing academic who is unable to complete the book he has been researching for years, but as the feeling continues and he is able to examine himself with greater and greater clarity, Roquentin begins to learn that maybe he has stumbled upon one of the great truths of our reality.
He discovers that there is no essence, no importance in motion or in the petty labels that people like to attach to themselves and others in a bid to catalogue the world and everything in it, and by cataloguing, to control. He reasons that we are essentially impossible to control, that each person exists because they exist, and for no other reason that that. The terms of our existence are unspecific, but clear. We do not exist to be pawns to a god, or to move the path of humanity forward. Instead, we exist simply to exist, we are an end unto ourselves, and the inherent absurdity in our lives means that a meaningful existence is impossible and even blasphemous. Through clear-eyed, coherent thinking, we are able to control our lives as we choose, and it is up to every man and woman to independently reject suicide. For those that do not, the meaningless quality of our lives makes no different when compared to those that do, thus there is no dishonour or achievement in either.
During the novel, there are a few side stories involving an ex-lover and a child-molesting friend, but these characters are used mostly as foils for Sartre's philosophy. In presenting arguments to Roquentin, Sartre is able to adequately satisfy the objections to his philosophy. There is a sense, however, that while the elements of existentialism presented in Nausea are powerful and compelling, the picture is not yet complete and no real answers are given. Later on in his career, Sartre was able to provide a large number of these answers, but even this early on, with his first novel, the depth of his thinking and the power of his message is quite simply amazing. |
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Dr-Fauste
Site Admin
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Alice, I can tell that you like the movie the Matrix!!! |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I gave 2 variants  |
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AliceFromMoscow
WayToRussified
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, thanks for your help in remembering where i might have heard this. )) exactly the matrix 
See, how evil tv is to children's unstable mentality. Keep your children away from the tv  |
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Patrick01
Frequent Guest
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Tennessee, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Alice, your funny, in a nice way.
I liked the Matrix also but more for the CGI scrips, and technology of iits making than the actual plot. |
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Alexeis-Zemanova
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Castilho,
Please don't get me wrong; there is great merit to these teachings, and i know that for certain types of people, the verses make a whole lot more sense than the Bible ever will. History has shown us this.
However I must disagree on the origin issue;
the premise of Ahura Mazda and even Spentra Mainyu is set in absolute concrete in those areas. If you ever speak to an archaeologist(professional), ask him /her exactly what the relationship is; whether or not the Vedic scriptures weren't simply the original Avesta with writings added on by other non-Zoroastrians over time.
Now they view the two as connected, so that gives us a pretty clear indication that they are still expecting to find more evidence of the connection in the future. As it is there is already enough written account from all over the then-world pointing the way.
Vedic Scriptures were kick-started by Zoroastrianism, and later non-Zoroastrians added their (as you rightly point out, very intense)writings, thereby forming a new belief.
You know it's funny how close they came to the new-age spiritualism prevailant today. They contain words of wisdom that talk of the harmony with the universe and a united connection that promotes deep love-surprising for an age where you'd think people were still just savages! I have nothing but great respect for those writers.
Naturally there are those who aren't even aware of the Zoroastrianism link. This is only natural. In England a tale was passed that Joseph of Arimathea once passed through Britain; to make the Christianity feel more homely for the English and not from just 'some other place'. I am sure there are many English today who still secretly hope it was true.
It's also funny that I have met real English pagans who acknowledged that all forms of European paganism, including Gaelic, was kick-started by Zoroastrianism.
Indeed there is a Mithras/Zoroastrian shrine still remaining near Newcastle(Microsoft Encarta), in northen England which dates from the Roman times. Remember the Mithras also held the Zoroastrianism as their 'Father' religion, and would look to them for spiritual leadership, so of course the Roman army initially had the blessing and help of the Zoroastrians. In later years, they would come to lose it, and historians collectively agree, that the Persian Empire became the single greatest force that attributed to the demise of the Roman Empire(p.s.Roman Empire NOT Holy Roman Empire).
But, of course, none of this detracts from the excellent writings they were doing as well. Just that the connection exists.
Thank you very much. I've got a real good feeling about Liverpool this year..our squad's looking tight..Happy New Year |
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