Way to Russia Talk Lounge

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

Ender,

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject:

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: 2Xela about Chechnya

Make sure you read this carefully: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya especially about the first and second war, it's causes and roots.

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

Ender, you obviously have far too much time on your hands,

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject:

Voyager · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject:

This is a facinating disscussion , and one I'm glad to see has'nt decended into outright hostilities Laughing

Being from Ireland , aside from the fact that we are millitarally neutral , we always had a very good relationship with Russia even during the height of the cold war , when no European country would even speak to the Soviet Union Ireland partook in cultral exchanges with Russia and engaged in many sporting events and generally positive dialogue and whilst we did our best to soften the food shortages Russia experienced in the 80's , it must also be said that we are still eternally gratefull for the unlimited access to its diesel reserves that Russia granted us at the same time while the rest of the world was'nt too pushed what became of either country.
So when we say we consider Russia a good friend and hope Moscow views us the same way , it means that if we do have cause to critisise Russian actions it is as friends not seeing eye to eye and nothing more.
The big issue Russia should considering here is what will the E.U. responce be? Todays E.U. is made up of many former Soviet states and they are watching the Georgian situation with great interest , and between them they have the voting power to determine E.U. policy on this matter , they obviously will not want to end up in the same situation as Georgia some day and will press the E.U. to take action sooner rather than later , and then there is the oil pipeline , that in itself is a reason for the E.U. to go to war with anyone (and it should be remembered that the combined E.U. 27 militaries are the largest military force on Earth , something the U.S. cant seem to understand either)
Finally , on the issue of Russian passport holders in South Ossetia , I have to agree with Endar that Russia is free to issue passports to whomever it see's fit ,and it is admirable that Russia will commit such resources to their defence , but , I would ask that while Russia is charging to the defense of these 30,000 or so Ossetians , will Russia do the same for the 1 MILLION former Russian citizens it abandoned at the collapse of the Soviet Union , ALL of whom are not recognised as citizens of the various countries they were abandoned to and have been refused Russian citizenship thereby making them nationless and unable even to claim refugee status , Ireland has taken many of them in on humanitarian grounds despite the Interenational Community telling us not to bother as it is not our problem , but having spoken with a few of them , and heard the absoutly horrific stories many of them have , mostly about the treatment displaced Russians recieved at the hands of the formerly oppressed peoples , I am glad my government decided to ignore other countries and help these people , so having seen the help 1 million teritorially displaced Russians got from Moscow , you will forgive me for being bemused by the over the top reaction to help 30,000 Ossetians

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject:

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject:

http://static.oper.ru/data/gallery/l1048752872.jpg

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject:

http://static.oper.ru/data/gallery/l1048752874.jpg

Ender · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject:

http://static.oper.ru/data/gallery/l1048752873.jpg

Writing on the paper:

Day shedule
3:00 - Attack
6:00 - Blitzkrieg
7:00 - Breakfast
12:00 - Victory
17:00 - Call for a help

Paul Holmes · Lounge Wizard Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1071

Georgian thoughts on this matter
They thought if they invaded a place that is recognized to be theirs, then they would quickly negotiate for peace then an International Peacekeepers would be placed in Ossetia instead of a Russian ones, thus kicking Russia out of this land. Second thing, Georgia forgot how much Russia really wants to kick them in the balls.
They forgot one thing, Russia does not care what the world thinks of it. They know the Europeans will curse and swear at them, but they are willing to take it in the ass for Oil, Natural Gas, and raw materials so they can produce cheap goods to entertain themselves.

Voyager · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject:

While this is a serious issue , I have to admit those are funny (I am a fan of Russian humor) , whilst I do not know why Russia is taking such a hard lind stand on South Ossetia I dont think it is a demonstration of Russian military power , there are far better ways for Russia to show this , I must also point out at this time that while I feel Russia may be wrong here , Georgia is not blameless here either , their actions to bring their breakaway regions under control would NEVER be tolerated if they were E.U members and while I can not speak for NATO (my government likes to keep Nato as far away from us as possible) I believe that orginasition would not tolerate this behaviour from one of its members either.
I accept that trying to help 1 million people scattered throughout 20 or so countries (all of them not too far from Russia) is a VERY big task , but even if it tried to help any of them would be a start , A friend of mine at work is Russian and it is nearly killing him that the Ossetians are getting so much support from Russia when he and his family cant even get to speak to a Russian official about their status ,his status being tat he was born in Omsk to a typically loyal soviet family , at age 3 his father was put in charge of a project in Estonia , and they moved there , in 1991 when Estonia left the Soviet union they found themselfs stranded there not recognised by either government , not allowed to work and had to scrape a living any way they could in apalling conditions while suffering terrible abuse from the Estonians and their government , it was'nt until 2004 when Estonia joined the E.U. and the Irish government began assessing what Estonia needed to get up on its feet that the plight of the former Russians came to light , that he and his family along with 50,000 other displaced Russians (this was the most we could afford to take in to support) arrived here in Ireland to try to rebuild their lives , and despite his best efforts he can not get a Russian passport despite being born there , I can not repeat here what he has said about the Ossetians.