Way to Russia Talk Lounge

Paul Holmes · VIP Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 969

Problem is that Chechnya had no economy and people who were leading the country were profiting just as much on the misery of the people. They sucking money out of Arabs to spread fundamentalism to other republics and oblasts. Just like Ossetians right now with the Russians and Pakistanis with the Americans.

When the money ran out or they may lost their power , look how many fundamentalists Chechnyan leaders changed to Russia. Many of the people who supported the rebels changed their ways when Russia poured money into this country more than the Arabs.

Ossetia, a place who only really income is counterfeiting and smuggling, is now receiving millions dollars from Russia. Georgia who economy is the worst for any truly independent country in Europe, is now receiving billions of dollars in aid. Price for this aid, the lives of some poor villagers and some soldiers who families did not have enough money to bribe the local physicians.

Greg, thanks for the link, but if I want to read about brothels and discos, then I will read articles from Mark Ames. He has a nice piece of trash in The Nation. Who give a shit about the villagers as long as the Moscow Elite can buy their BMW for their trophy girlfriends.

gomer · WayToRussified Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 437

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4682003.ece

"US navy ship steams into port where Russian troops stationed"

I guess the U.S. Navy ship can use its electronic listening devices on Russian military conversations and the Russian military can use its jamming devices to try to prevent same.

greg222 · VIP Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 522

Paul Holmes · VIP Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 969

Ames used to have quality writing, now he seems to have a bias against the west. I found his articles are just Russia journalism.
While he is quick to criticize the west, he is very careful about his words about Russia and its politics.
thenation.com/doc/20080818/ames

Compare
thenation.com/doc/20070625/ames

Look how he wrote before
thenation.com/doc/19991004/taibbli/4
He was willing to write against the gov't if necessary. Maybe he is scared or something. Journalists is not a safe job in Russia.
He was good, but now his articles have the same quality of the English Version of Pravda.

greg222 · VIP Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 522

But you know The Exile newspaper has been shut down (apparently because the authorities didn't like Eduard Limonov's columns) and Ames has left Russia? He wrote a lot of anti-Government articles about that. So I don't see that such criticisms could apply to anything that he's writing now.

I think this one is a pretty good article:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/ames2

Certainly I don't see any reason to call it trash.

Xela · VIP Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 781 Location: Shanghai

I'll give you a good reason to call it trash: It's Russian propaganda written by Mark Ames of all people.

Trying to compare this conflict to Kosovo is proof of the fact this person doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. We don't need to go as far as Kosovo, just take a look at Chechnya and Russia's double standards on the issue.

If Chechnya should not have autonomy, then why should Abkhazia and South Ossetia?

This is the comparison Russians don't want you to talk about.

Paul Holmes · VIP Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 969

darthvader · WayToRussified Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 378

So......In St Petersburg for example, due to the conflict plus the following political fallout between the West and Russia in recent weeks, are foreign (Western) tourist numbers noticeably down this month, compared to the same period last year? Or, are things roughly the same?

Paul Holmes · VIP Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 969

Never count out Russia and Russians. They are strong and determined people.
Russia's problem (Ukraine also) is that they have never access to easy credit and money like they have now. With lax rules and easy credit, the average Russian has build significant amount of debt. Even teenagers are buying the latest phones on credit and it is all about image.
Russia was up 300 billion in Foreign currency. In the 90's, they were only 50 billion. But since this war, they have dropped 18 billion.
Gasprom has been significantly on the offense buying gas from Nigeria and trying to buy Serbian national oil company.
The west especially the French and Germans, have been backing off to put the pressure on Russia.
What can seriously harm Russia? Slow down in the Chinese Economy.
Highly leveraged housing market, skyrocketing food prices and low saving in financial institutions.
Putin should focus on pushing the Oligarchs to spend their money in Russia to develop resources, industry and roads. With a good economy and good jobs and encouragement, families will have more children. Siberia also has a threat of influx Chinese people.

darthvader · WayToRussified Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 378

Good points about the Russian young and debt. Although there was/is the Nashi craze (a pro-Russian products push), the facade of (Western) affluence is extremely important I notice (must have all the European cool stuff)! One might live in a shoebox-sized apartment, be up to their ears in debt, but its crucial to look affluent on the streets.

Whereas, most Westerners, particularly Australians, Canadians and Americans, generally don't mind looking/dressing like a homeless bum, but could be multi-millionares for we know.

Anyway, foreign tourist numbers now in St Petersburg.....Due to the geopolitical fallout from the war, are tourist numbers markedly down "presently", compared to this period last year?

Arina8 · Frequent Guest Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 26

Paul Holmes · VIP Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 969

Arina, with an average salary of $400 outside of Moscow in a normal city (I know there is lots of undeclared income) and average flat about 50,000, most Russians cannot afford to buy their own home.
Almost everyone owns cell phone and average cell phone is about a month salary or three weeks.
Cars price have significantly increased and food also.
Savings in the bank is guaranteed for little money.

I thought this is a good quote about the Georgian War
"The Laborer and the Snake

A SNAKE, having made his hole close to the porch of a cottage, inflicted a mortal bite on the Cottager's infant son. Grieving over his loss, the Father resolved to kill the Snake. The next day, when it came out of its hole for food, he took up his axe, but by swinging too hastily, missed its head and cut off only the end of its tail. After some time the Cottager, afraid that the Snake would bite him also, endeavored to make peace, and placed some bread and salt in the hole. The Snake, slightly hissing, said: "There can henceforth be no peace between us; for whenever I see you I shall remember the loss of my tail, and whenever you see me you will be thinking of the death of your son."

"

The Farmer and the Snake

One winter a farmer found a snake stiff and frozen with cold. He had compassion on it, and taking it up, placed it in his bosom. The warmth quickly revived the Snake, and resuming its natural instincts, bit its benefactor, inflicting on him a mortal wound. "Oh," cried the farmer with his last breath, "I am rightly served for pitying a scoundrel.

Arina8 · Frequent Guest Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 26

Paul Holmes · VIP Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 969

Unfortunately, the thread is on Georgian War.
Independent. Back to the Snake and Farmer story. One will always mistrust the other. Like a call in a football match, you will call the penalty based on where you viewed it and if you are biased. Truth will never come out, but only rumours and twisted stories.

Mobile phones, when I was there, most kids were buying the latest phones which are triple the price than in the USA.

Housing, then tell me why a flat that cost 25,000 5 years ago is now 75,000 and how an average Russian family can afford such places with 12% mortgage. Places like Moscow, Piter, and Sochi are stupid expensive. Rents have increased like wise. Just like American housing market, prices have gone past the ability for lower middle class family to afford such homes.

Arina8 · Frequent Guest Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 26