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nikir
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1480
Location: Coffs Harbour Australia
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 Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Holmes wrote: |
I am laughing LMAO watching the Russian stock market collapse and yet Putin finds more money to spend on the military. |
I am LMAO at you Paul. Nothing new, been doing it for years.
You should take a look closer to home and then reflect on how ludicrous some of the statements you make are.
You are just a Russia basher. |
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gomer
WayToRussified
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 446
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| gomer wrote: | | Paul Holmes wrote: | | I am laughing LMAO watching the Russian stock market collapse ... |
"Russia halts trading after 17% share price fall"
Is this what Paul Holmes is refering to? |
BTW there is a Russian ETF that is listed on NYSE. Originally 40 went up to 56, now it is 26. Why? Because Russia is not a good place to do business yet and falling commodity prices. I lost some money on it also.
So when the economy hits the skids, what do you do? Invade another country and increase military spending. Are you sure that GWB and Putin are not related, because that is exactly what Bush did. But Nikir will go off on GWB, but think Putin is the best type of guy. Why? Because he hates America. Just read his old posts.
This is the guy who should be running the USA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul
Although I do not agree with him fully, his ideas are better than the traditional parties. |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Nikir, you are such a good mathematician. 850/1700 what is that? Does that equal the same percentage of 14000/12000 or 13000/11000?
Russian index is 1/2 or 50 % or if you take what is the index now and times by 2, you get what it was 3 months ago.
Other resource countries's stock markets have not been the same. Why? Because Russia has not provided the ground work for economic growth as they should. Inflation has been stated 19.6%!!!
Annual inflation
2005 19.6 percent
But the economic growth is
2005 6.4� percent
See Reuters ( or is that western propaganda also)
So average purchase power of a Russian has been decreasing. So what happens when say the oil goes from $150 a barrel to say $90? Natural gas goes from $12 GJ to 7.5. And this is 40% of your income? This does not count for other resources that are exporter and with a Worldwide recession, will greatly reduce its income.
Putin has had a surplus of wealth and should be concentrating on build the manufacturing sector of Russia. Agriculture is still below 1990 production. Restriction on easy credit from lending institutions is also very dangerous. Russia may have some money in reserve and it will be Ukraine that hits the skids first, but if the recession does not recover quickly, Russia is big trouble. They have chased away foreign investment and their own oligiarchs are not investing back into the country they should. Why is that? Because Russia's nationalistic attitude to foreign operations has made it economic nonviable.
Do not believe? Look what happened to almost every foreign oil company in Russia? Or what happened to Aerostar Hotel in Moscow?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMP_Group
theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050420.wruss0420/BNStory/International/
I guess it is more propaganda.
What about this?
bellona.org/english_import_area/international/russia/nuke_industry/siberia/mayak/21636
Russian man who told the Bellona about this tragic event through information from public sources was throw in jail but the FSB, because he released state secrets. Eventually released after 3 years when Norway put pressure on Russia.
Russian basher, hmmm, maybe a Putin basher or a fascist basher FSB basher or proper economist , not a Russian basher. Nice try, go learn economics. |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Russia Stock Exchange Falls Nearly 18%-Instant Karma!
"Russia halts trading after 17% share price fall
By Catherine Belton and Charles Clover in Moscow and Rachel Morarjee in London
Published: September 16 2008 15:07
Russian shares suffered their steepest one-day fall in more than a decade on Tuesday, losing up to 20 per cent, as a sharp slide in oil prices and difficult money market conditions triggered a rush to sell. The heads of the Russian central bank, the finance ministry and the financial market regulator met on Tuesday night for an emergency discussion on ways to halt the crisis. Margin calls forced domestic traders to liquidate positions and brokers pulled credit lines. At least one Moscow bank failed to meet payments.
The rouble-denominated Micex Index closed 17.75 per cent down, the sharpest one-day drop since the August 1998 financial crisis, while the dollar-denominated RTS index closed down 11.47 per cent, its lowest lvel since January 2006. Interbank money market rates climbed to 11 per cent, their highest since a mini-banking crisis in summer 2004. Chris Weafer, chief strategist at Uralsib investment bank: “We’re in completely uncharted territory where the prevailing emotion is of fear and numbnes. No one knows where this could stop”.
Alexei Kudrin, finance minister, insisted that the financial system was not in a systemic crisis but the central bank injected a record $14.16bn in one-day funds into the money market. The finance ministry also placed an additional R150bn ($5.8bn) in one-month deposits into the banking system. Konstantin Korishchenko, central bank deputy, told Russian news agencies that the bank and the finance ministry could provide a total of $117.6bn in liquidity to the banking sector. But market players said banks were ceasing to lend to second and third-tier companies and brokers were pulling credit lines. KIT Finance, big Moscow investment house confirmed rumours that it had been unable to make payment on a series of short-term loans.
It said: “In connection with the fact that a series of our clients did not meet their obligations to our bank, we have not met our obligations to our counterparties.
“We recognise our responsibility to our counter-parties and to the market and we are working intensively to resolve the situation.”
Andrei Sharonov, managing director of Troika Dialog, a Moscow investment bank, and a former deputy economic minister, said: “This is a vicious circle,” said ,
“It is a situation of total mistrust. The liquidity crisis is being caused by a crisis of confidence in which people are frightened to borrow and frightened to lend.”
Shares in Russia’s biggest state-controlled banks led the slide with Sberbank, the state-controlled savings bank, closing 21.72 per cent down and VTB losing 29.26 per cent. The bank was suffered on investor fears about its securities portfolio, which makes up about 10 per cent of its assets."
I hope this is economic pressure in a different form and is another way for western investors not subsidizing the return of the Soviet KGB thug tactics. Maybe going back to the economy of the Soviet Union which was a disaster is one way for them to wake up and realize all they have to lose if they continue their insanity. I feel sorry for the small individual investors though as there's no easy way to protect them, yet also penalize the government for its actions. |
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Ender
WayToRussified
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 479
Location: Urals
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Back to the topic. If Russia hadn't interfered into Georgian-Ossetian war Russian stock market would have remained intact. Correct? |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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hey nikir, the exchange is suspended again. i guess you should eat your fn words. You are and always will be an idiot.
Gee Nationalistic Ender, I hate to say that I stated that this was going to happen. Sometimes I hate being right.
Georgia war just put more mistrust in a system that had more mistrust. Tnk BP and the steel company. Poor credit policies also. Now, Putin looks to spend more money on military.
KGB policies does not work in a free economy. It is a flight to safety. While the oligarch stole from each other and foreigners through bribery.
Russia was a great lotterty ticket, although it was risky, the reward was worth it. Now at 80$ a barrel, the risk is not worth it.
Before things get worse. Clarity and corruption have to cleaned out. Strong credit rules and policies have to be develop in order to control monetary policies of the government. Putin has promised to clean things up and now gets his KGB ass from war mode to financial mode.
As individual, if I had money, I move it to secure institutions like Sber Bank and not small banks. many of them will collaspe. Believe or not, this is a great thing for Russia. Russia has needed a good spanking and now it is about to receive one. The gov't has to do something drastic which in a long run will be good. If they do what they are suppose to do, they will have true world class economy that will be one be the strongest in the world instead of bunch of thieving oligarch who steal oil at night and nationalist who fuck over each other based who is truly Russian.
But hey, I am just a Russia basher and know nothing. The drop in the Russian market is just propaganda from America. When small banks close and you cannot get your money out, more propaganda. |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| nikir wrote: | | Paul Holmes wrote: |
I am laughing LMAO watching the Russian stock market collapse and yet Putin finds more money to spend on the military. |
I am LMAO at you Paul. Nothing new, been doing it for years.
You should take a look closer to home and then reflect on how ludicrous some of the statements you make are.
You are just a Russia basher. |
You are a fn idiot and the market has proved this. You are always will be an idiot. People point at you and say is he a special needs person. If it was not so dire of a situation, I would be laughing my ass off at your stupidity and moronic remarks.
Now we will see if Russia is going to join the modern economic world or stay in the KGB economic back alley. |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The contagion spreads: Russia
'Full-fledged financial panic' sees stocks dive 11.5% before trading is halted
Article Comments BRIAN MILNER
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
E-mail Brian Milner | Read Bio | Latest Columns
September 17, 2008 at 9:15 AM EDT
The global market meltdown has triggered a flight to safety in markets around the world, but no country has been hit harder than Russia.
The pummelling of energy and commodity prices, combined with a growing lack of confidence in Russia's ability to manage its economic affairs and to provide a transparent market that plays by the rules is throwing the country into its worst financial crisis since the crash of 1998.
In a stunning drop, Russia's dollar-denominated stock index plunged 11.5 per cent yesterday as investors headed for the exits. The benchmark ruble-denominated index fell nearly 18 per cent, and analysts say the worst may be yet to come. The selloff was so dramatic that authorities halted trading for an hour in an effort to stabilize the market.
"We're seeing a full-fledged financial panic," said Anders Aslund, senior fellow with the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington.
"I think the Russian stock market has quite a bit further to go."
To prop up the crumbling ruble and shore up the financial system, the central bank pumped a record $14-billion (U.S.) into the market and spent more than $1-billion on rubles.
But it will almost certainly have to do more, analysts say.
Prime Minister Vladimir Putin insisted that his country could withstand the financial assault.
"I have no doubt that the safety cushions established in the Russian economy in recent years will work," he told a television audience.
But market watchers are not convinced, noting that Russia is plagued with myriad problems exposed by the sudden decline of oil prices and the global credit squeeze that is raising the cost of debt financing for all but a select few countries with top-notch credit ratings. Russia's invasion of Georgia in August also sent a message to investors that the country would put politics ahead of its economic interests.
Indeed, Russia's weakening finances, the lack of interest in its corporate debt and the loss of investor confidence in everything Russian were well under way before global events made financial life considerably tougher for the wounded Russian bear.
"When the Russians start valuing political and security issues and say to hell with whatever happens to the economy, investors pay attention to that," said Peter Zeihan, vice-president of analysis with Stratfor, an Austin, Tex.-based publisher of geopolitical and security analysis and intelligence.
"So all of the factors that were behind the Russian surge of the past three years economically have had their legs knocked out from under them. And investors are acting appropriately."
Russian stocks are down nearly 55 per cent since late May. And the major, state-controlled energy companies are off as much as 70 per cent.
The steep decline has hit Russia's wealthiest people particularly hard, because the oligarchs were using stocks as collateral for other risky investments. Now they face margin calls, which is putting further pressure on the market.
Russia's rapid transformation from a darling of emerging market investors to near-pariah status has market watchers recalling the debacle of a decade ago, when the Russian financial collapse triggered a global financial storm. That isn't likely today, because the Russian treasury is still loaded with oil revenues.
Most major Russian companies, on the other hand, rely heavily on foreign debt to finance their operations and expansion. And they are finding a cold shoulder in the international bond market.
For its part, the government will have to pay significantly higher rates to roll over expiring sovereign bonds in the next year, analysts say.
The energy producers that have been the drivers of the Russian economy and the principal source of the country's growing coffers need more money than ever to develop new sources of supply. "But they're entering an environment where they're going to get less and they're going to have to pay more for it," Mr. Zeihan said.
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I told you so |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Xela wrote: | | You agree with the Czech president, which means you agree with the man who enjoyed letting Russians destroy his country, the man who is hated by many of his own countrymen, and the man who enjoyed several immoral affairs with young women. |
He enjoyed 'immoral' affairs with young women?? Shocking! Of course, then, we must discount everything he says. |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Greg, right now the shut down of the MICEX has not even made front page news. Putin is hoping that people will ignore the issue.
But now the Russian rumour mill is out at full force with its conspiracy that the west is doing this as revenge against Russia for Georgia.
Give me a break.
Putin is doing the usual BS of blaming someone else and then it is he smite them. I am sure this guy thinks he is God or the messiah.
He has to go back to do really what he promised to do that is focus on building the Russian economy by diversification and eliminate corruption and provide clarity to its judicial and business system. Aka build up fairness and trust.
This invasion showed that Putin cannot be trusted. He promised to leave Georgia and did not and did the usual song and dance. He looked like a liar in the foreigners' eyes. So when he promises something, most do not believe him anymore. |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Paul, I'm not quite sure why you're addressing me. I don't see how any of that is relevant to the points I have been making in this thread. And, again, Russia was already under the hammer from the Western media long before they set up their 'buffer' inside Georgia instead of withdrawing fully.
By the way, if you check Russia Today again you'll see that the financial crisis is now the top story. Note that I'm not defending Russia Today: it's a very crude, ill-conceived and ultimately counter-productive PR tool. Which again goes to show how far Russia is behind the West in PR skills. |
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Paul Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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So Greg, you think that it is the western press that is causing the crisis in Russia. Just say words as Putin has stated.
Unfortunately, that is completely false. It is the fact that foreign companies do not trust the market in Russia and have been screwed over too many times.
Look at TNK-BP and visa issue. Why would they deny a visa for a CEO of Russia second largest Oil Company.
Exxon and Shell entry in Sakhalin Islands in which they were forced to sell to Gasprom.
Look at the problems PetroKazakhstan had with Luk Oil.
If you look how the apartment were sold , demolished and new high rises were built in Moscow with friends of Mayor of Moscow making a huge profit (let us not forget his wife who still has great interests in construction).
Why the collapse ? Trust, there is no trust among thieves and the oligarchs are worst ones. Why no trust? Corruption and clarity of rules of business.
When Russians' invade Georgia, they hurt their image. When they said they were pulling out and did not, they broke the trust. when kept on repeating this, they lost creditability on the world stage.
Now they had to spend 130 billion dollars to fix the mess. That is 2,142,857 per South Ossetian.
In America, they are spending more money to fix the situation and it is a load of crap also. I call the American plan - Good, the bad and the Ugly.
Good is that they are changing the Financial rules and placing an agency to monitor financial industry and transication.
Bad- Denying short selling for three weeks. They are the ones who got ridden of the Uptick rule about shorts.
Ugly- buying all the mistakes of the Financial industry and watching the CEO walk away with huge profits and bank accounts while the average American pays for it.
Russia's plan is just the Ugly. Spending 130 billion and not placing any restrictions on the financial industry is just moronic. Lowering taxes to the rich without any conditions to develop more resources or build manufacturing plants is just dumb.
But Putin does like he always does, blame the Americans. |
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greg222
VIP
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Holmes wrote: | | So Greg, you think that it is the western press that is causing the crisis in Russia. Just say words as Putin has stated. |
Paul, what on earth are you talking about? I haven't said a single thing about the financial crisis and I have no idea why you're addressing me in your posts. |
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gomer
WayToRussified
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 446
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
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www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080919103055.sytbqgv6&show_article=1
"Russian minister says war with the United States not possible"
But...
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4787809.ece
"The Russian Navy announced that it will introduce a new long-range ballistic nuclear missile on submarines next year. The Bulava-M has been developed for a fleet of new strategic nuclear submarines, the Borey-class Project 955.
The first of seven vessels, costing $890 million each, is currently undergoing sea trials and will be equipped with 16 Bulava missiles, each with up to 10 nuclear warheads and a range of 8,000 kilometres (5,000 miles)." |
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