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Goodkray
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: Unprepared first time visitor in culture shock. |
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I have been in Moscow now for 4 days traveling solo on an intended 2 week stay after a very hastily planned trip. I had heard all the stories about how rude and unfriendly people in Moscow were but being a generally happy friendly guy myself I did not pay much attention to those critics. I assumed the comments were made by impatient foreigners with no cultural sensibilities. I have travelled to South America where my parents are from and several countries in Europe and reside in New York city. I did not prepare myself as well as I should have and only knew a couple of polite phrases, words and the Russian alphabet, the rest I thought I could figure out once I got here.
I have to now agree with all the critics and sadly conclude from experience that they were right. In Moscow I have approached many people on the street, in hotels, restaurants, etc. and the vast majority will not express the slightest urge to help me in any way, and worse will make wise ass remarks or roll their eyes as if I was the 100th foreigner bothering them that day. I feel sad for Muscovites, there must be a reason for them feeling like this and granted maybe I insult them by butchering their language when I approach them, but in any other country the locals are actually pleased that at least you are making an effort.
I am a very patient person and it takes a lot to get me upset but I could not hold it in any longer and found this board to vent after wandering the streets tonight until 3am looking for a place with some music to listen to and not finding anything near my hotel .... I walk into the hotel lobby, comment to the receptionist that I did not find any places tonight hoping for a recommendation for tommorow and instead get the answear "maybe the places were all hiding tonight" with a smirk intended to make you feel like an idiot. Another receptionist today after telling her that I was going to buy train tickets for St. Petersburg (I can't stay in this city for 2 whole weeks) at the station told me " you can buy them on the web, wait the site is all in Russian." In any other country the natural reaction might be .... let me help you buy them online since I speak the language. I'm sorry for ranting but I could give many other examples, these are just 2 of the ones that occured today.
I do not want to paint all Russians with one paintbrush. The first hotel reception desk where I stayed was fantastic, but it was too expensive and I had to book elsewhere. There were a couple of people who did go way out of their way to help. Old women in general and one Maldavian youth who bought my train tickets for me and chatted with me in French since he did not speak English and I speak a little French.
First timers coming to Moscow, I advice you to come with company so you don't feel like an outcast and have someone to talk to. And definately come prepared with set itineraries, plans, and language skills. Moscow is not a destination where you can wing it and easily improvise. |
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romdur
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Goodkray, I love visiting to Russia, and at the same time I understand what you are feeling.
When I returned from my first two-week trip (having previously made shorter jaunts), the airport parking shuttle bus was driven by a black guy, who was simply friendly and warm. I remember feeling so grateful, it was like rain falling in the desert...
Russia has a great many kind people, but most reserve this kindness for those they know. If you are used to a place where folks are often helpful to strangers, it's a big adjustment. Responses with the tone "what's the matter with you, how can you be so stupid" (like the "joke" the receptionist made to you) are fairly common.
And now, people are very stressed out by the financial crisis, which is much more painful there than here in America.
I've spent only a couple of days in Moscow, I know Peterburg much better. I'm glad you will be going there, because I hope you will have a better experience. Sankt Peterburg is the biggest tourist attraction in Russia, and perhaps the city best adapted to foreigners. It's also amazingly beautiful.
So hang in there, and keep exploring, I'm sure you will meet some friendly people.
Probably you already know this, but pickpockets are a serious industry. I disregarded the advice not to carry my wallet in the back pants pocket, and got it lifted. Especially, be really careful about how you carry your passport, losing it is much worse than the wallet!
So I hope you will keep an open mind, have some great experiences, and post further about how your visit goes. |
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gaijin
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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The staff of the hotel is not only rude but also stupid. To buy tickets on rzd.ru you need not only to speak russian but also a credit card on a ruble account.
This website is utter shit. It is planned to have something decent by the end of the year. You really have to pay more than 200 dollars per night in Moscow to have decent and helpful staff. If you pay 150 dollars per night you will face miserable bastards like you had.
This is sad but it will take another 20 years before it changes. At least. |
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Goodkray
Just Starting
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the responses and suggestions. I am definately being careful with my passport and of pickpockets. In that sense I am pleasantly surprised by how safe Moscow seems, I've wondered the streets late at night and some streets are completely deserted, I really expected more of a nightlife in the sense of people walking in the streets and businesses being open late into the night like in New York City.
I guess the price of the hotel definately explains the difference in service and I really am trying to keep an open mind. I actually met someone today from Colombia who is fluent in Russian and who has been in Moscow on and off for 10 years and like you said it was like rain in the desert. We had drinks and they confirmed your observations about the psycology of most Muscovites, life is just very hard for them. The difference in the way we were treated when we were having drinks was like night and day, I think the language is really the key, it was nice seeing smiles on Russian faces as he spoke to them in Russian. I intend on meeting with my new aquaintance again these next couple of days and already my spirits have been lifted. |
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Russians don't do strangers. And they don't answer questions. And they mistrust foreigners who are strangers and asking questions. |
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IREN
Frequent Guest
Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Россия, Москва
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| overseas_expat wrote: | | Russians don't do strangers. And they don't answer questions. And they mistrust foreigners who are strangers and asking questions. |
Can you and are right, but it is not necessary to generalise nevertheless.
For example, I always willingly communicate also foreigners and is ready to help, if I can understand about what they ask. (I know English not so well). |
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Kayfadin
Just Starting
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijin wrote: | | This is sad but it will take another 20 years before it changes. At least. |
At least one hundred years. 20 years already had pasted. |
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Greene
Just Starting
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: Sad to read these things |
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| I have saved many years for my few days in Sankt Petersburg this August. We have tried to learn phrases, customs and are amazed by the rich history and struggle that the Russian people have endured. After reading some of the posts on how cold the people are, I am concerned that it will be an unwelcoming place where we will not get an opportunity to connect to anyone. For me, the sites of Petersburg were only part of what I wanted to see, I wanted to leave with, even a small, deeper understanding of what it is to be Russian. I have spent time reading the history. Learning about how important the writers have been to the people. I have spent time with Chekhov and hours reading of the cold winter of the siege wondering what the generational impact of that memory is on the city. Now I see, 60 days before I leave, that the people are unfriendly and unhelpful? My excitement has changed to apprehension. It appears that I should spend my time in Sankt Petersburg's monuments to beauty and excess and will, sadly, stay clear of the people when I can. I'm glad we have retained a guide for most of the time. They will be paid to be friendly and helpful. |
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romdur
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: Don't be Discouraged! |
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@Greene,
I expect that you will have a delightful time in Peterburg, that you will remember always. It is an amazing place, and I feel inspired when I am there. This will be my first year since 2004 to miss the "white nights" (financial crisis,  ), and I feel a big sense of loss about it.
Russians are not as bad as all that! They're certainly not worse than Americans, only different. Americans practice a lot of "simulated friendliness," like the constant smiling regardless of how one feels. Russians tend to be really warm and friendly with those they've gotten to know, and quite impassive to strangers.
Sankt Peterburg is the place for tourism, and a lot of the people you'll see in the streets are fellow tourists, who are just as unused to the city as you will be. At least 5 or 6 times, Russian tourists have asked me (a bozo from New Jersey) for directions - in Russian, of course!
I highly recommend studying as much Russian language as you can in the 60 days you have... if you can spare a couple of hours per day, you'd be surprised how much you can learn! (I used Pimsleur audio courses myself.) Even in you only have a few dozen words at your command, it will help.
If you can establish any personal connection ahead of time, this could really enrich your experience. For example, maybe someone you know from work, church, etc. has a family member living in Sankt Peterburg, or knows somebody who does! You'd be surprised. If so, they'll probably volunteer that relative to meet you and show you some sights. And they'll ask you to take some gift to their relative too, or to bring something back... it's really quite nice.
Because you have a few weeks, there is enough time to do some networking. You can try right here on this forum: make a post that you'd like to meet some St. Pete residents, probably you will get some replies!
And if your accommodations are not already "nailed down," look into staying (for at least a couple of days) in the apartment of a Russian family. The money they will typically ask for expenses will be a tiny fraction of what you pay for a hotel room or apartment of your own. Most such families won't know English, but I expect it's possible to find someone who does. If you stay with a host family, everything may be kind of primitive (especially the plumbing), and if you experience this, you are getting the taste of life for ordinary Russians. (Be forewarned, hot water systems are often shut off in August: bathing can get a little tricky.) Again, use this website: you can probably get help finding a host family.
Other ways to see what life is like for regular people: book your own apartment, instead of a hotel room (it will probably be pretty luxurious compared to most apartments, but is a very different experience from a hotel). Get around by foot as much as you are physically able. Take the buses and trolleys (often hot and crowded) instead of the taxi. Eat "at home," go shopping at a local grocery, or better the big market near Sennaya Ploschad. If you can, eat somebody's home cooking: you will probably be delighted.
Most of all, have fun! I have spent many happy hours simply wandering along the embankments of the canals, or the Neva. I hope I soon be there again... |
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