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averageg
Frequent Guest
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: Canadian Marrying Russian in Moscow |
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Greetings everyone,
After more than 4 years of contact and traveling to be together, my Russian fiancee have agreed to marry me. First of all I am from Toronto, Ontario, Canada and my fiancee is from Chita. We plan to go to Moscow to get married in October. I have gathered random information all over the Internet the past few weeks but I would like some clarification. I only have 3 weeks (4 if absolutely necessary) in Moscow to get everything done so I hope you can help me.
What I am requesting is a step by step direction on how to get married in Moscow, including approximate time to wait for each. For example, I know I will need a Certificate of No Impediment to Marriage, but should I obtain one from Ottawa or would I be able to get it fast from the Canadian Embassy in Moscow? I know it will take Ottawa at least 25 business days to get that certificate to me.
Next would be getting an apostille for the certificate. What is the recommended place to go to for this? As well as translation of the first page of my passport?
Now, I am reading from another website that I can get all of these done in Moscow, including marriage, if I laid out bribes. Can anyone confirm?
What is the fastest solution to get everything done? Thank you for your help.
P.S. One thing that I'd like to add is we tried getting her a Visitor VISA to Canada last year and unfortunately, but unsurprisingly, she was refused. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Go to a Yahoo Group called CRWL and they will help you with thr transfer and adaptation to Canadian culture.
This is a travel site, not a marriage agency. |
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averageg
Frequent Guest
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your reply, Paul. I actually took your advice last week (I did a search on this forum and found an old post of yours) and have already joined the group. However it's apparent there's little activity there.
I'll look elsewhere for marriage advice. sorry for the thread. |
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Wouldn't it be a lot easier to get married in her home town where her family and friends can participate?
How many times have you stayed in her city? Both of you would know the marriage palace and their procedures a lot more than in Moscow where it is harder to do anything without spending a lot of money and wasting a lot of time with traffic etc. Waiting times for the ceremony appointment will likely be less also.
All in all, it seems like an unlikely time schedule. Get a Private Visa for 3 months after you have your Canadian documents together and don't rush the process in Russia. Besides unless you have lived here for at least 3-6 months at a time you will not understand what you are getting into. Relax, make it an adventure, not a race.
Your Secretary of State will provide the Apostille for any documents. The best place to get a certified translation of your passport in in Russia where services are common and not expensive. I always keep 3-4 around because they are needed often. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| averageg wrote: | Thanks for your reply, Paul. I actually took your advice last week (I did a search on this forum and found an old post of yours) and have already joined the group. However it's apparent there's little activity there.
I'll look elsewhere for marriage advice. sorry for the thread. |
No problem, search the forum that I gave you and you will find your answers. If not, post your questions and they will be answered. If you look, you will see who is the locals trolls. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| stanj wrote: | Wouldn't it be a lot easier to get married in her home town where her family and friends can participate?
How many times have you stayed in her city? Both of you would know the marriage palace and their procedures a lot more than in Moscow where it is harder to do anything without spending a lot of money and wasting a lot of time with traffic etc. Waiting times for the ceremony appointment will likely be less also.
All in all, it seems like an unlikely time schedule. Get a Private Visa for 3 months after you have your Canadian documents together and don't rush the process in Russia. Besides unless you have lived here for at least 3-6 months at a time you will not understand what you are getting into. Relax, make it an adventure, not a race.
Your Secretary of State will provide the Apostille for any documents. The best place to get a certified translation of your passport in in Russia where services are common and not expensive. I always keep 3-4 around because they are needed often. |
I think it is due to fact that is lack of a Canadian Embassy in Chita, but I think there is a consulate in Vladivostok now.
As for marriage to Russian girl, I date a couple and never will do it again, there is too much cultural differences to make it work for me. |
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Holmes wrote: |
I think it is due to fact that is lack of a Canadian Embassy in Chita, but I think there is a consulate in Vladivostok now.
As for marriage to Russian girl, I date a couple and never will do it again, there is too much cultural differences to make it work for me. |
He does not need to visit the consulate for anything, the documents required are all gotten easier before leaving Canada. Trying to get anything from the consulate will take more time and that is the not the job of the consulate.
As for Russian woman, not to get this threat off topic too far, are certainly different, and there IS a major cultural difference that is ignored by most western men to their peril, but for some of us, the compatability is great and we find ourselves more comfortable with Russian culture than our native culture. I have not dated a North American woman in over 15 years and find almost all my close friends, for years have been, and remain Russian women. For me they are the perfect match. But I am not typical and I find myself feeling totally out of place on my rare visits back to the US. After a week I'm counting the hours until my departure. In the last 6 years I have been in the US a total of 3 months, most of that only getting a new visa.
But I do agree, just because their look feminine(they are), and attractive(they are), are well educated, social and well mannered(yes and all that aw well), western men assume that is enough. But the men are usually incompatible with ANY other culture than their own. Canadians and Americans are almost uniquely isolated from other cultures and are not as adaptable or as flexible as other nationalities when it comes to culture differences. There is a high failure rate of marriages between US/Canadians with other cultures when there is a much lower failure rate between a great number of other cultures not in North America. Possibly due to physical isolation or lack of extensive travel or whatever reason.
I meet lots of couples here who say they want to marry, where one of the partners is American or Canadian and I suggest not to even think about until he has moved here and lives together for at least 6 months. Vacation time together or occasional dating, and email romances do not qualify as knowing each other or their respective cultures. A year would be better.
And the 3 week time allotment in this case is very unrealistic. It shows there already has been little adaptation to the needs, probably time limited because of a job requirement. Jobs are much easier to replace than good relationships, so my strong suggestion of spending 6-12 months together in her home town is very realistic and appropriate. Everyone thinks the fastest methods, even if extra-legal, are the best, when in fact the built in delays are wise huddles placed intentionally. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sigh, we versus them posting
False, there is not high divorce rate between other cultures and Americans/Canadians. It is actually lower than the traditional divorce rate.
Canadians women I see are very well educated (should I post stats on % Bachelor degrees based on country), very well mannered, and social. They dress more conservative. So I am not sure who you are hanging out with. Just generalized stereotypes that people look for to prove that their belief is correct. Russian women who stay in Canada also become indistinguishable in dress from the average Canadian. 80% of Russians who immigrate to Canada, stay in Canada.
Difference is ONLY cultural and that is different within a country. A girl from a Siberian village is totally different than Moscovite daddy's girl. Would Moscovite rich girl be able to adapt quickly in New York city or a Russian village?
It is all about what you want in life. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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This is from the Embassy for a friend of mine about three years ago.
| Quote: | Steps to Russian marriage:
1. WHEN YOU ARRIVE IN RUSSIA YOU HAVE TO REGISTER YOUR RUSSIAN VISA WITH
YOUR RUSSIAN SPONSOR OR THE HOTEL WHERE YOU STAY IN RUSSIA (without
valid Russian visa and registration with the Russian authorities you
will not be able to get married in Russia and will not be accepted by
the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs).
All foreigners are required by Russian law to have their visas
registered within three days of arrival. The registration has to be
done by your Russian sponsor, or the Russian company which invited you
to come to Russia, or the Travel agency (if it is a tourist visa) or by
the hotels where you are staying. The Embassy cannot assist in this
case.
2. OBTAIN A MARRIAGE LETTER STATING THAT YOU ARE FREE TO MARRY AT THE
CANADIAN EMBASSY IN MOSCOW, 23 Starokonyushenny Pereulok, Main entrance,
Consular Section. We accept clients every day, except Saturday and
Sunday and statutory holidays, from 10:00 to 13:00 and from 14:00 to
16:00. Tel 105-6000. Embassy web site: www.canadianembassy.ru The
Marriage letter will be issued for you in English and Russian. The
transliteration of your name should be identical to that on your
Russian visa. The cost is $CAN 50, or the equivalent in rubles (1200
rubles), or US$ (40).
3.OBTAIN AN OFFICIAL TRANSLATION OF THE INFORMATION PAGE OF YOUR
PASSPORT. The necessary translation can be obtained at any certified
translation centre that has a Russian notary public present. A
translation made by the Canadian Embassy is ALSO acceptable. The cost
for such translation done by the Embassy is $CAN 15 or the equivalent in
rubles or US$.
4. HAVE THE SIGNATURE OF THE CANADIAN CONSUL/VICE CONSUL ON A MARRIAGE
LETTER AUTHENTICATED AT THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS of the RUSSIAN
FEDERATION (has to be submitted to the Ministry by a Canadian citizen
ONLY IN PERSON). PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT WITHOUT THE STAMP OF THE
RUSSIAN MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS A MARRIAGE LETTER WILL NOT BE
ACCEPTED BY THE RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES.
This service is performed by the Department of Legalization , Consular
Services of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian
Federation, at Moscow, First Neopalimovskiy pereulok, 12a, nearest metro
station "Part Kultury", then 2 stops by trolleybus # 10 or #B at the
direction of Smolenskay Square . Telephone: 244-37-97. The hours of
operation are Monday - Thursday, 10:00 to 12:00 and 15:00 to 17:00 and
Fridays - from 10:00 to 12:00 and 15:00 to 16:00 (tel 244-3797). . The
procedure takes 5 working days and costs 150 rubles (about 5 US
dollars). Telephone 244-3797. One day service IS NOT AVAILABLE and
service hours and processing time may change without notice.
5. GET MARRIED AT THE CIVIL REGISTRY OFFICE (ZAGS) After completing the
first fours steps, please contact any local Marriage office (ZAGS) in
the place where your fiancee is residing /registered (in Russian this
abbreviation means - Zapis Aktov Grazhdanskogo Sostoyaniya). In Moscow
we recommend you to contact the Marriage office at the following
address: Palace of Weddings (for foreigners) , 17 Butyrskaya St. Moscow,
Telephone 285-1960, 285-7988, 203-5292 where you have to submit the
above mentioned documents and your passport. The ZAGS will issue a
Marriage certificate for you once you get married. It means that your
marriage is legal for Canada.
6. Once you are married, you may contact the Immigration Canada for
information about family class sponsorship for your spouse, or
Immigration/Visa web site: www.cic.gc.ca.
7. The Russian authorities will issue a Marriage certificate for you
which has to be properly legalised to be valid in Canada.
1 ) . First step - go any Russian Notary to legalise the document .
Make a notorised copy of the document. Then make a certified translation
of the Marriage certificate (by any of the translation service into
English or French).
2 ) . Second step - the signature of the Notary public has to be
authenticated by the Russian Ministry of Justices (Ministerstvo
Yustitsii)
3 ) . Third step - the signature of the Russian Ministry of Justices has
to be authenticated by Legal Department (part of the Consular services)
of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia (see address above).
4 ) . The Canadian Embassy in Moscow, Consular Services or the Canadian
Consulate in St Petersburg will authenticate the signature of the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia (Legal department). The cost is 50
Canadian dollars or you can pay equivalent in US dollars or rubles. Only
after that your Marriage certificate issued in Russia will be valid for
Canada.
IF YOU HAVE ANY CANADIAN DOCUMENTS (IT CAN BE, FOR EXAMPLE, A DIVORCE
CERTIFICATE or any other document issued in Canada) YOU WISH TO USE IN
RUSSIA, PLEASE NOTE THAT ANY DOCUMENT ISSUED IN CANADA IS NOT VALID FOR
RUSSIA UNTIL IT IS PROPERLY LEGALISED. IT CAN BE DONE ONLY IN CANADA,
CANNOT BE DONE IN RUSSIA, EVEN CANNOT BE LEGALISED BY THE CANADIAN
EMBASSY IN RUSSIA. PLEASE DO EVERYTHING IN CANADA BEFORE YOU COME TO
RUSSIA.
HOW TO LEGALIZE CANADIAN DOCUMENTS (CAN BE DONE ONLY IN CANADA).
1ST STEP. Document notarized in Canada. The proper procedure is to have
the document notarized by a notary in Canada.
2nd STEP. Authentication of the notary`s signature. The notary's
signature must then be authenticated by the Lieutenant-Governor of the
province in which the notary is commissioned (requests for such
authentication are usually channelled through the Deputy Provincial
Secretary of that province or, for Quebec, by the Secretary of the Board
of Notaries in Montreal).
3rd STEP. Authentication of authentication`s signatures. Done by the
Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT), Legal
Advisory division. DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS & INTERNATIONAL TRADE
CANADA, LEGAL ADVISORY DIVISION (JLAC), 125 SUSSEX DRIVE, OTTAWA,
ONTARIO, K1A OG2 TEL:(613) 995-32-54, 995-0119 Director Mr. D. W. Smith
Mr. Mario Nunes Suarez
4th STEP. Authentication of the DFAIT's signature: Done by the Russian
Embassy in Canada (Ottawa) or the Russian Consulates in Montreal or in
Toronto. Cannot be done in Russia.
5th STEP. Please do not forget to make translation into Russian language
by any certified tranlator as documents in other languages are not
accepted in Russia.
ONLY AFTER THAT A CANADIAN DOCUMENT WILL BE VALID IN RUSSIA.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Natasha Bulgakova
Consular Assistant
Consular Section, Canadian Embassy
23 Starokonyushenny Per, 119002 Moscow Russia
7-095-105-60-69
Fax: 7-095-105-60-51
e-mail: natasha.bulgakova@international.gc.ca
_________________ |
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stanj
Frequent Guest
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg Russia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Holmes wrote: | Sigh, we versus them posting
False, there is not high divorce rate between other cultures and Americans/Canadians. It is actually lower than the traditional divorce rate.
Canadians women I see are very well educated (should I post stats on % Bachelor degrees based on country), very well mannered, and social. They dress more conservative. So I am not sure who you are hanging out with. Just generalized stereotypes that people look for to prove that their belief is correct. Russian women who stay in Canada also become indistinguishable in dress from the average Canadian. 80% of Russians who immigrate to Canada, stay in Canada.
Difference is ONLY cultural and that is different within a country. A girl from a Siberian village is totally different than Moscovite daddy's girl. Would Moscovite rich girl be able to adapt quickly in New York city or a Russian village?
It is all about what you want in life. |
The erroneous claim that cross cultural marriages are more successful did was a myth created several years ago by a marriage agency and not supported by any studies or surveys by objective methods.
Only those with commercial interests in promoting such arrangements continue that claim.
And no, you don't know who I am hanging out with so why guess? There is little doubt I hang out with a wider range of and larger number of Russians than you do over a longer period of time, having more involvement in dealing with the Russian government in more fields.
I did not say anything about the Canadian women not adjusting. Why invent straw men?
The long post about how the Moscow consulate suggests a Canadian citizen goes about marrying a Russian national does not answer the question as to why not get married where she is registered....as she is supposed to. All these steps are possible in other regions and the procedure varies with region. Are you claiming marriages with foreigners only can occur in Moscow? Tell that to the many people who marry where they are supposed to, where the Russian citizen is registered.
IF someone happens to marry in Moscow, the description fits the procedure in Moscow as of 3 years ago but not in other areas. The letter of non-impediment for marriage is also available while still in Canada, but it has to be legalized by an office of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which are in every region, and in larger cities, in many districts.
Maybe if the OP had spent time learning about this in her own region he would not have needed to depend on speculations by strangers on a forum 5,000 miles away. Does not bode well for someone not interested enough to find out directly. Neither does primarily looking for shortcuts and bypasses of regulations. He did not seem to care whether it was legal or effective, only that it fit in his limited time schedule, even if it required breaking the law and paying bribes. That is not starting a new out on the right foot, being a bad guest in a country that has every right to establish its own procedures. |
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Paul-Holmes
Lounge Wizard
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1073
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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No, I said it is easier on the documentation and posted information directly from the Canadian Embassy.
It is what he asked for.
| Quote: | | What I am requesting is a step by step direction on how to get married in Moscow, including approximate time to wait for each. |
What you want and what he wants is two different things. Maybe she wants a Kremlin wedding. Maybe he wants a place that is convenient if his documentation is not in order. After 4 years, he has spent lots of time in Chita. Maybe with the economic situation, he does not want to quit his job to stay in Russia for three months. Because the last time I looked, the average Canadian does not have 3 months vacation in a year. Maybe he is bringing in his family. You really do not the whole picture, but you can offer options. But you are assuming lots.
Do you want the evidence that cross cultural marriages have a higher success rate than an average marriage in the USA?
| Quote: | From http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstudies/mobappa.htm
"According to data supplied by the U.S. Census Bureau, there were
2,395,000 marriages in the U.S. in the 12 months ending June, 1997 (and
1,154,000 divorces in the same period). The 4,000 to 6,000 marriages
involving international services represent, then, a tiny portion (.021
percent) of the women who marry U.S. men.
It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the
agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas
report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would
appear to have a much lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole,
fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for
which reports are available."
The divorce rate for American men who marry American women: 57%
(officially). But since the figures from several states (including
California) are excluded, the true national divorce rate is likely
closer to 65%. The divorce rate in California is over 70%.
The divorce rate for American men who marry foreign women: approximately
20%.
So you can marry an American woman and have a close to two-thirds chance
of getting divorced, or you can marry a foreign woman and have at least
a 75% chance of success. |
Again, you are wrong. Just BSing an answer without any backup or support. I am not stating that cross cultural marriages are more successful, because they are cross cultural, because other factors like a second marriage and marriages from countries that do not divorce easily can be a factor. But it is an error to state that cross cultural marriages do not last when you have zero information to prove different.
Wow, great you work with the Russian government . So tell me exactly what I do, where I have been, how long I stayed in Russia/Ukraine, or are you assuming again?
But to classify Russian women are better than North American women, because they mannered, dress better and more educated is BS. Maybe if you are working in Moscow and comparing to a small town in the USA, but in average women are similar. People are individuals with cultural bias, but they are unique and they can vary in cultural from even the big city to the village. Village girls (generally) in Russia do not have the luxury to dress like girls in Moscow or SPB. IMHO factors like dress, manners and education would be more influences where they were raised and what social environment whether poor country or city rich. It also has the factor of what you consider to be the definition of manners. Aka one shoe does not fit all. |
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