| Author |
Message |
canapa
Just Starting
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 1
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: Unusual dual citizenship/miitary service question |
 |
|
I would appreciate any advice. My son was adopted from Russia 9 years ago. He 19 years old today and a full time student in college. He has a US passport and I renewed his Russian international passport when he was 16. He turned out to be a very good athlete and he has excelled at one sport in particular. A Russian national team coach has invited him to try out for the Russian national team this summer.
Of course the problem is the mandatory military service. We know that he has to travel into Russia on his Russian passport, and he needs his Russian citizenship to be eligible to try-out/play for the Russian national team. How can he safely travel to Russia without fear of being drafted into the military?
Any help will be very much appreciated! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
romdur
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't have an answer for your question. But I do recommend, to be very, very careful about this!
In my understanding, neither the U.S. nor Russian Federation legally recognizes dual citizenship. In other words, to the USA he is simply a US citizen, and to the Russian Federation, he is simply a Russian citizen. They won't care about his U.S. citizenship.
Even if I received an "iron-clad" guarantee that he would be exempt from military service, I would want to verify this 5 different ways. I'm no expert on this, hopefully people who know more will share their wisdom... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would guess that this son would be too valuable to the Russians as an athlete for the recruiter and his backers to allow the son to be conscripted by the Russian army.
When I left Moscow two years ago the going rate for buying your way out of the Russian army was $5,000. Assuming some inflation in the last two years, it has probably gone up from there by maybe 10-20%. So now $5,000 to $6,000 for whatever documents need to be produced and whatever people need to be paid off to keep the kid out of the army.
Not so expensive for a well heeled sports organization. They can pay it. If they are actively recruiting this son, they have probably already budgeted this as an expense.
But life holds no guarantees. And the Russians are desperate for army conscripts. Their bureaucracy can be whimsical according to higher level directives and corruption works both ways.
All things considered, if it were my son, there's no way in hell I'd let him go to Russia till he was past draft age. Just way too risky.
My $0.02. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DelBoy
Just Starting
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 7
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As far as I am aware, according to the Russian law, foreign permanent residents are not subject to the military service. I take it your son has a stamp in his Russian passport, confirming that he is registered with Russian Consulate as a permanent resident in the US. If not, this should be obtained prior to any trips to Russia. This is what they used to call 'propiska' and now called registration. As a foreign [permanent] resident, he is, by law, not entitled to Russian internal passport. This is extremely important: DO NOT apply for this (can only be done in Russia), as the actual application will trigger military conscription paperwork. As he never had his Russian internal passport (issued at 14), there would be no file for him at local military HQ. Now, despite all these, once inside Russia, there will be pressure to obtain internal passport, as it is their main form of ID and required constantly. Most low ranking officials are not aware of the fact, that Russian citizens, permanently residing abroad are not suppose to have internal passports, and they will insist on seeing one. Perhaps a letter from the Russian Embassy/Consulate confirming the fact that such and such is permanent resident in the USA and do not require, nor entitled to have an internal passport will be useful.
Bottom line is - he is not subject to military service, as long as he is not permanently registered/residing in Russia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good post DelBoy, but the lawlessness of the Russian government cannot be overestimated. Just because there are certain parameters and procedures in place for the draft doesn't mean that the authorities won't operate outside of those legalities.
I wouldn't trust them for a second to follow the letter of the law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DelBoy
Just Starting
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 7
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| overseas_expat wrote: |
I wouldn't trust them for a second to follow the letter of the law. |
Absolutely! Personally, if I were that age (I wish LOL) I wouldn't risk sticking my nose in there until my 28th birthday at least. Law or no law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tony3010
Just Starting
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 1
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: One question |
|
|
| DelBoy wrote: | This is what they used to call 'propiska' and now called registration. As a foreign [permanent] resident, he is, by law, not entitled to Russian internal passport. ...
Bottom line is - he is not subject to military service, as long as he is not permanently registered/residing in Russia. |
Very informative post. One question. How long can one live in Russia while still being considered a foreign permanent resident? Can a foreign permanent resident legally get a job in Russia without attracting the attention of the military authorities? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Friday, April 30, 2010
Window on Eurasia: Demographic Shortfalls, Draft Resistance Forcing Russia’s Generals to Scramble for Soldiers
Paul Goble
Vienna, April 30 – Faced with a declining number of men in the prime draft age group and increasing resistance even among them, the Russian defense ministry is calling for extending the length of time during which the spring draft will take place, drafting men as old as 30, reducing the number of deferments and bringing to justice those who illegally avoid service.
If these measures are adopted, the Russian military might be able to fill its draft quota this time around but only at the cost of increasing disruptions in the economy and especially in the lives of young men and of worsening public attitudes toward the military, activists and experts warn.
Russia’s spring draft began on April 1 and was slated to last until July 15, but the problems the military has been having with securing enough draftees this time around have been so severe that the General Staff this week offered a series of proposals so that it can reach its quota.
First, Col. Gen. Vasily Smirnov, the Staff’s deputy head, called for extending the draft to August 31 to give the system a chance to round up more people. He said that last year, 100,000 individuals refused to serve and that now “10,000 [potential] draftees do not want to receive” draft notices (www.stoletie.ru/na_pervuiu_polosu/rossijskoj_armii_ne_khvatajet_soldat_2010-04-30.htm).
“At the same time,” “Stoletiye” reported, Army General Nikolay Makarov, the chief of the General Staff said that approximately 200,000 people are seeking to avoid service and that the military wants to force prosecutors to bring those who are refusing to fulfill their military obligation to justice.
Second, the defense ministry announced that it wants to increase the upper age limit for draftees from 27 to 30, thereby increasing the size of the draft pool, at least this time around. And third, the ministry “proposed reducing by 70 percent the number of higher educational institutions of Russia whose students are deferred from service.”
All these measures would require parliamentary action. Viktor Ozerov, the chairman of the defense and security committee of the Federation Council, said that he supported some but not all of these proposals. And Anatoly Kucherena, a member of the Social Chamber, said that the proposals should be subject to the widest possible public discussion.
But if these two are at least willing to consider the military’s proposals, others, especially in the activist community, are appalled by what the General Staff has suggested. Valentina Melnikova, the head of the Union of Committees of Soldiers’ Mothers, said she was shocked by what commanders want.
In an interview with “Svobodnaya pressa,” Melnikova said that the proposals represented “a putsch by the generals” and even recalls “August 1991.” That is because, she continued, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov had met with her group only nine days ago and told its members that he had no plans of this kind (svpressa.ru/society/article/24681/).
Serdyukov was either dishonest, something she doesn’t believe, or he didn’t know what his generals were planning, Melnikova added. If he is in charge, she suggested, the defense minister needs to impose order and dismiss those generals who are acting on their own. If he isn’t, of course, there is a bigger problem than the arrangements of the current draft cycle.
http://windowoneurasia.blogspot.com/2010/04/window-on-eurasia-demographic.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marinaru
Just Starting
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DelBoy wrote: | As far as I am aware, according to the Russian law, foreign permanent residents are not subject to the military service. I take it your son has a stamp in his Russian passport, confirming that he is registered with Russian Consulate as a permanent resident in the US. If not, this should be obtained prior to any trips to Russia. This is what they used to call 'propiska' and now called registration. As a foreign [permanent] resident, he is, by law, not entitled to Russian internal passport. This is extremely important: DO NOT apply for this (can only be done in Russia), as the actual application will trigger military conscription paperwork. As he never had his Russian internal passport (issued at 14), there would be no file for him at local military HQ. Now, despite all these, once inside Russia, there will be pressure to obtain internal passport, as it is their main form of ID and required constantly. Most low ranking officials are not aware of the fact, that Russian citizens, permanently residing abroad are not suppose to have internal passports, and they will insist on seeing one. Perhaps a letter from the Russian Embassy/Consulate confirming the fact that such and such is permanent resident in the USA and do not require, nor entitled to have an internal passport will be useful.
Bottom line is - he is not subject to military service, as long as he is not permanently registered/residing in Russia. |
Thank you , what about when person is below the draft age , but very close to it - my son will be 18 in August and we planning trip to Russia in June , he has British passport and Russian passport and will be entering Russia with Russian passport , where he has stamp with permanent residence in the UK. However he also has internal Russian passport he got at age 14 , and we planning de-register him while in Russia . Do you think there is a risk for us to travel now , even he is still under age ?
Thank you |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goDutch
Frequent Guest
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| marinaru wrote: |
will be entering Russia with Russian passport , where he has stamp with permanent residence in the UK. However he also has internal Russian passport he got at age 14 , and we planning de-register him while in Russia . Thank you |
What do you mean "de-register"? Registration is a stamp in the passport indicating address of permanent residence. Only one registration is possible at a time. Your son cannot be registered in Russia, since he is already registered in UK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
