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Serpentz
Just Starting
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: Problem on 1 year Visa regarding 90/180 day rule |
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Greetings everyone. I'm new here. Want to send out a thank you in advance to any help or clarification I need regarding my situation.
I've been in Russia for almost a year now on my last Visa. I have two prior 30 day Visas. I've got a 1 year Business Visa that expires in February 2011 that I obtained in Berlin with no problems. Like a good boy that follows the rules, I've left Russia every 90 days on time each time and come back. I've not had any troubles and the entire time I've been here has been awesome up to the point of last month. Last month I was robbed late at night by a Caucasian (not the same American definition mind you) with a knife. He took a considerable amount of money which was to fund my next 90 day exit/entry which was 11 days ago. I currently now have enough money to leave, but I do not know the trouble I am in. My visa is still valid, but I do not have the last 90 day exit/entry stamp. I've been leaving for a few days every 90 days and in August I was actually gone for 25 days while in Spain.
My question is this: What problems am I going to run into even though my Visa is still valid, but I have not left and overstayed the 90 day period? I still have my migration card and all my papers including my valid Visa. I was planning on going to Berlin in February to renew my Visa again for either 6-12 months and come back. I'm engaged to a girl here and she is planning on wanting to go to the USA in July to finish school there. I'm scared to death and I just don't know what to do. If I am in big trouble, and I am not allowed back, we would both be devastated.
If anyone here can give me some advice, that would be awesome. I was supposed to leave on the 28th of November and come back a day later.
Thanks for all your help.
Z |
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overseas_expat
VIP
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Location: Moscow
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Blah, that's terrible you got ripped of by a gypsy cab.
Ultimately I would suppose that cash will somehow buy your way out of the problem as Russian bureaucracy is highly susceptible to cash as an alternate way of dealing with policy and legal irregularities.
Outside of that, I'm sorry but I don't know how you may fix the issue. I write this response just so that you know your post has been read and responded to and doesn't just sink to the bottom of the posts without a reply.
Your Russian girlfriend is probably your best resource for fixing the issue as no one can understand the innards of Russian government workings like a Russian can.
Hopefully someone else here will respond as well.
I wish you good luck. |
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Serpentz
Just Starting
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: Thank you |
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Thank you for the reply...I appreciate it very much.
Ultimately, my goal is to stay here till July and leave with my girlfriend who seeks to finish her schooling in the USA. So I don't want to jeopardize the ability to fly back to Germany, get my new Visa, and then head back home. I did this last year with no problems. I did read an older law that says you can't get a Visa unless you're in your country of citizenship. Not to get off topic, but I achieved this without a problem. I've done well on all three of my Visa's and being a good foreign citizen with no troubles. I've not even been asked for my papers once since I have lived here off an on for almost a year and three months.
My Visa expires in February and I hope to renew it without a problem. But this last 90 days that I didn't leave, when I was supposed to has me worried terribly. |
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romdur
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:01 am Post subject: |
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To begin, a few questions:
1. I'm guessing you are in Russia on a US passport. Is that correct?
2. What is your legal status in Germany -- do you simply fly in as an American visitor (no visa)?
3. By what process did you get visas outside of your home country? This question comes up very often on the forum, and it would be really valuable to get details from somebody who did this!
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The Bad News:
If I understand your posts correctly, you already were breaking Russian laws and/or regulations, before you overstayed your 28 November deadline. You wrote "I've been leaving for a few days every 90 days" ... that's not how it works with long-term business visas. The rule is, you may not be in Russia more than 90 days out of ANY CONSECUTIVE 180 DAYS during the validity of your visa.
It appears to me, that you may have spent close to 150 days there during a 180 day period. So even if you had left by 28 November, any alert passport control officer might have busted you for overstaying. And even if passport control missed it on your exit, it could be caught during some future entry or exit. For all I know, you could even get busted at a consulate when you apply for your next visa: the old visa, and the entry/exit stamps are there as long as you have your current passport.
Overstaying a visa is an administrative offense, punishable by a fine (I think on the order of a hundred dollars or so, don't remember). In addition to the fine, when you apply for future visas, you must answer "yes" to the question, "Have you ever overstayed your Russian visa or stayed unlawfully in Russia?" Such visa applications take a week or two longer than normal to process: the consulates apparently do special checking for people who have previously broken the rules. Possibly, they could insist on interviewing you at the consulate before granting a new visa.
A person found to have committed two such administrative offenses, may be banned from obtaining a Russian visa for 5 years.
I don't know what to expect, but it is conceivable that MID (the Russian counterpart to the US State Department) might find 2 or more administrative offenses in your situation, so it is possible that you will be at risk of a 5 year ban.
One thing I am sure about: YOU CANNOT RETURN TO RUSSIA USING YOUR CURRENT VISA, YOU MUST APPLY FOR A NEW VISA.
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What to Do:
Russia being the crazy place it is, nothing can be predicted with certainty. You can simply leave as soon as you can, and see what happens. Who knows, maybe you can charm your way out of any official offense? But be ready to pay at least of couple of hundred dollars in fines and/or bribes.
If you aren't officially caught for overstaying, I would recommend going back to your home country and renewing your passport (to get rid of the incriminating evidence). Then apply for a 90-day business visa. With these visas, you can do what you were already doing (leaving briefly every 90 days) WITHOUT putting yourself in an overstay situation. You can simply get a new one each time you leave Russia.
If you are caught, and charged with one administrative offense, pay the fine and accept that your future visas will take a little more time and hassle. Then apply for a 90-day business visa.
If you are caught, and charged with more than one administrative offense, you will need to hire a Russian attorney to help you whittle it down to one offense. This will cost several hundreds (at least), and if you can "beat the rap," it might be a couple of months before you can return. If you can afford it, you might want to talk to an experienced migration attorney now, while you are still in Russia. Such a person can advise you much better than I!
BTW, there is a contributor on this forum, listvianka, who has offered help in getting long-term visas WITHOUT the 90 day limit. You can do a search on this...
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Hypothetically...
If the thief had taken your passport and migration card, then it wouldn't be so obvious that you had overstayed. If the MID bureaucracy is too inefficient to check when your entry/exit history, then your overstay might have gone undetected.
You would have had to get a new passport from your country's consulate, and then apply for a Russia exit visa (a really big deal, which absolutely requires help from whoever was behind your current visa's invitation). Such a process could take weeks, and cost plenty of money. And you would still have been charged with an administrative offense for leaving without a migration card, but not necessarily an overstay.
Theoretically, this might have avoided some troubles, but the extra troubles would probably have been far worse.
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Continuing the Overstay
Probably, you are afraid of having trouble getting back to your girl -- and maybe asking yourself, "I'm already illegal, what's the harm in continuing?"
I suppose a case could be made, for staying until you get close to your visa's expiration date. Perhaps you wouldn't be in any more "hot water" than you are now.
But if you are tempted to stay until summer, when she is supposed to come to the USA ...
DON'T. Even though you have overstayed your visa, and can't use it to return to Russia, it is still valid as an exit visa until its expiration date! If you stayed past its expiration, you would have to apply for a special exit visa (see above), and be effectively a captive in Russia with no legal status until and unless you could thread this bureaucratic needle (and come up with the money to pay the fees and fines).
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Bottom Line
Obviously, you are stressed out about this situation. At the very worst, you have to pay some fines, and don't get to see your girl again until summer.
But probably, you can get a new visa, and return to Russia within a few weeks. There is likely to be some expense and hassle along the way. In the long run, things will be OK.
So stay calm, raise enough extra money to handle the possibilities, and deal with the situation. And please, come back to the forum to tell us how things work out! As uncomfortable as your situation is, whatever you learn will be very helpful to other travelers in need.
To anyone who reads this -- UNDERSTAND THE RULES FOR USING YOUR VISA, AND OBEY THEM. |
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Serpentz
Just Starting
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:28 am Post subject: Hello |
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OK I'll go over the details on how I got my 1 year Visa and tell you my story on how I got it. First of all I use a travel agency in the USA called Travel Flex in Seattle where I am originally from. Last December I came here on a 30 day visa. My girlfriend, who I'd come to see a few months before, wanted me to stay with her. Since I work online as an affiliate, I can work anywhere in the world and make money. I had already packed up my things before I came to her the last time because we had talked about me staying. I was going to fly back home and get a Visa for one year, but my travel agent said she would send an invitation to Berlin since I was going there to visit some friends. She sent a Telex to Russian consulate in Berlin and just a short 5 days later and 180 Euro, I was told to enjoy my trip and handed my Visa. I was not there with a Visa, just my USA Passport as a tourist. I just had a stamp from the border guard at Tegel Airport....nothing special. Oh by the way, before I forget. I made sure to get my HIV test done here in Russia and made sure I had ALL the correct paperwork before I left for Berlin.
As far as what you are saying about the 90 days, I think you might have misunderstood, or I might have written my post in bad English. I've noticed my English skills badly deteriorating thanks to my Russian which is even worse! When you have a business Visa for one year, you must exit the country every 90 days. You can then come right back into the country after you get your exit stamp. Me and my girlfriend had taken a few trips out of the country every three months. Once you exit, you can turn around and come right back the next day. I went to Ukraine on a really bad, dirty, stinky, and hot train ride. It was a really bad trip. Ukraine was amazingly beautiful though and I was surprised. I came back and stayed 3 months and then left again to Spain which we stayed for 25 days in Madrid and Barcelona. I came back on August 29th which resets the 90 days. They have always stamped my passport....even the Ukrainian border guards on the train. That was actually a scary experience and kind of crappy in the middle of the night.
Now my Business Visa does say 90/180 though.
My girlfriend thinks I should stay here now till I am ready to leave in the summer which will be past my Visa stay date by 6 months and I'm saying "No way!". I'd like to be able to come back here if I have to. I really would be interested in getting a long term stay visa without having to leave every 90 days. It's such a pain and it's expensive.
Thanks for all your help and replies and please ask me anything. I'd like to be able to help anyone out that I can. |
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romdur
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Serpentz,
Your English is fine!
But your understanding of the rules for multi-entry business visas, is definitely incorrect. I am very clear about this, and the 90/180 rule has been in effect for several years now. There are no ands, ifs, or buts about it.
If I have a 12 month business visa, and my first visit lasts 90 days, I am not supposed to reenter Russia until 90 days after my departure.
If my first visit lasts 80 days, I can legally reenter Russia after that -- but up to the 100th day after my first exit, I can spend at most 10 days in Russia. If I am there any longer, I am breaking the rule.
It is interesting, but not very surprising, to hear that passport control officers have allowed you to reenter illegally. Possibly, your points of reentry were small towns? Maybe the passport control officers are poorly trained, or inattentive.
But you definitely violated the rules of your visa, within a few days (at most) of your second entry.
And this may be good news for you! When you leave, do so at one of the places where you successfully reentered before (in other words, on the same train line, etc.) If you are lucky, the passport control officers who either don't understand the 90/180 rule, or are too lazy to enforce it ... won't bother about the visit more than 90 days long! (Seriously, one is just as wrong as the other.)
Whatever you do, don't attempt to use this visa at a major airport, where passport control might be much more efficient!
But once you are out, make sure to either get the "magic visa" listvianka wrote about, or to get a series of 90-day business visas. It is definitely more expensive to get a new visa each time, but the stunt you have gotten away with so far, can all come crashing down if you meet one passport control officer who is doing the job correctly.
To anyone else who reads this: this guy (who didn't understand the rules, and made honest mistakes) lucked out, getting away with something he was absolutely not supposed to do. It's an awful gamble, for someone who would be deeply unhappy to be exiled from Russia for 5 years.
Russian officialdom can be very strict, harsh, and merciless. MID has given absolute hell to people who overstayed a visa because they were laid up in a Russian hospital! Many officials can be bribed, and some will be kind-hearted, BUT DEPENDING ON THIS IS RISKY. |
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Serpentz
Just Starting
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hello again 
Every time I have left I've left only for a week or so at the most and I've come back without any problem at all. They always stamp my passport and this was at Domodedevo Airport twice. I have not had any troubles at all.
I'm guessing they are being lenient on the 90 day rule, or not checking it, or it's not being strictly enforced. I have always though I had to just leave each 90 days and then come back a day or two later, which I came right back the next day from Ukraine, and re-enter Moscow. I didn't realize it meant I had to leave every 90 days for 180 days. If this is the case it's not being enforced anywhere. I was only gone for 25 days and came back from Spain and they stamped my passport and let me back in. This is really interesting to learn this.
I am going to leave at the end of January before my Visa expires and fly to Berlin with my girlfriend and get another year Visa. She has a Shengen visa till February 9th. Again, I've had no problem as an American citizen going to Berlin and getting a Visa and coming back to Russia. I'll make sure to post what happens when the time comes. I'm not sure what the law is since I've been here in Russia the entire year, but I am going to get another HIV test and make sure I got all my paperwork straight. We'll see what happens
I appreciate everyone's kindness and advice. Just wish me luck they don't check out the stamps...it's their fault after all because they have let me in with no problem and stamped my passport each time. |
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Serpentz
Just Starting
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:10 pm Post subject: Forgot... |
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Can you please tell me where I can find the information you are talking about on this Visa mentioned?
"magic visa" listvianka
I can't seem to find anything on the search but I am interested.
Thank you very much and wishing you well. |
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romdur
Lounge Lizard
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 197
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nikir
Frequent Guest
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Forgot... |
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| Serpentz wrote: | Can you please tell me where I can find the information you are talking about on this Visa mentioned?
"magic visa" listvianka
I can't seem to find anything on the search but I am interested.
Thank you very much and wishing you well. |
I would strongly suggest that you read through Listviankas post history and make your own decision on his credibility before contacting him about this matter. |
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